Hurt/Comfort and PTSD
Tue, Apr. 30th, 2013 11:28 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
chordatesrock posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
access_fandomI wrote something for fun at one point. It was a scene from the point of view of a character with PTSD, set immediately following the part of canon where he returns to the exact location where most of his trauma occurred. If I were to draw a graph where the Y axis represents being more mentally unwell, and the X axis represents time since the end of the original trauma, then I might draw a line sloping shallowly downward as it heads further right, with a bump in the middle. The fic would be that bump. It has its own beginning, middle and end.
The problem is that, in the fic, the character's best friend provides a lot of emotional support. It could probably be argued that the best friend's help is instrumental in making the character feel a lot better, fully resolving the current triggered reaction in a way that helps the character to deal with the trauma better in the future, but doesn't fully resolve it.
I've considered expanding on that, with other single-scene fics from other points in canon, showing that it's not static before then or fully resolved afterward. However, I don't have as many ideas for those, and a lot of them would be harder to write. It's already fairly long for a oneshot, and I was particularly capable of writing it the day I started it, in a way I probably never will be again.
I want to post this, but I don't want to contribute to the problems with hurt/comfort, which I am afraid I might have written. I would like to portray healing as a dynamic, only partly linear process that will result in something different from the situation before the trauma, and different from the situation immediately afterward.
Because I feel uncertain about this, I would like to invite the thoughts of anyone with relevant experience or information.
The problem is that, in the fic, the character's best friend provides a lot of emotional support. It could probably be argued that the best friend's help is instrumental in making the character feel a lot better, fully resolving the current triggered reaction in a way that helps the character to deal with the trauma better in the future, but doesn't fully resolve it.
I've considered expanding on that, with other single-scene fics from other points in canon, showing that it's not static before then or fully resolved afterward. However, I don't have as many ideas for those, and a lot of them would be harder to write. It's already fairly long for a oneshot, and I was particularly capable of writing it the day I started it, in a way I probably never will be again.
I want to post this, but I don't want to contribute to the problems with hurt/comfort, which I am afraid I might have written. I would like to portray healing as a dynamic, only partly linear process that will result in something different from the situation before the trauma, and different from the situation immediately afterward.
Because I feel uncertain about this, I would like to invite the thoughts of anyone with relevant experience or information.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-01 12:56 am (UTC)To me, the problematic type h/c is almost always shippy almost by neccessity. The problems arise when the disability's purpose in the story is to show how totally awesome the non-disabled charater is, how great they are for each other, how their magic understanding / affection / cock is SPECIAL. That doesn't sound like what you've described here.
Questions to ask yourself: is the purpose of the piece to showcase the relationship between the two characters using the PTSD as a MacGuffin? Is the non-traumatized best friend super awesome at helping the traumatized character, while all of their canonical friends are shitty at it? Is the friend the ONLY reason the character is healing? Those are good warning signs.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-01 05:12 am (UTC)That'd be a bit like writing about a damaging racial incident and focusing on how it affects the non-minority involved and how brave and resourceful they were.
In h/c, I've found the focus seems often to be on how much the traumatized individual needs their sexual/romantic partner; and how lucky they are to have said person in their lives to help them. The focus isn't on the person with the trauma disability. Or at least, that's how the genre seems to have developed over the years.
I admit I like some h/c fic. But I tend to like ones where while the focus is on the person who has the trauma and are attempting to deal with it - the comfort comes from someone in their lives trying to understand and making sure to be there. The tramatized individual in struggling with whatever is going on, having the sense of knowing they're not alone.
But the focus isn't on the friend or SO. And it's definitely not all about the traumatized person going 'Oh I'm so lucky to have x in my life, what would I do w/o x now that I'm horribly horribly broken. Oh they're so patient and forgiven of my brokenness'
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-01 05:53 am (UTC)So, for instance, in my fandom, there are a lot of fics about this pair that follow a specific pattern where the character with PTSD wakes up from a nightmare and starts petting the other character (who has fur) and crying. These fics are always written from the furry character's point of view, not the POV of the character with PTSD, and the message is always that the character with PTSD is horrifically damaged. The portrayal of his reaction to trauma is also very static in these fics: it never gets any different, let alone better.
My fic, on the other hand, tries to focus on how the character's mental state changes, and is from the point of view of the character with PTSD. There are multiple references to how his PTSD now is not the same as his PTSD yesterday is not the same as his PTSD two weeks ago. (My canon also forces a slightly unrealistic timeframe for healing. Various aspects of the second installment make much more sense if they take place over several months, but I counted the breaks when someone could have slept, and it took less than thirty days at most.)
The other character is particularly effective at helping because some of his experiences are analogous. For instance, both of them have experienced physical alterations because of dark eco (for "dark eco", read "all-purpose plot coupon of evilness").
So, the fic focusing on the PTSD differentiates it from problematic H/C which focuses on the character offering comfort?
Thank you both.
Well...
Date: 2013-05-01 08:39 am (UTC)or any other thing in literature
can be done well or poorly.
Some are easier to do well, or
easier to do poorly.
Hurt/comfort is a major part
of many genres, and also it
stands well on its own. The
core of its appeal is that, if
you push and release the tension,
you can raise it a great deal
higher and make the climax
more gratifying for a reader,
than if you push and hold.
Tolkien is the grand master of
hurt/comfort in my mind. He
has a wonderful rhythm of plot.
It's chopped to hash in the
movies, alas, but the books are
still around for anyone who
wants to see the original.
Look at the stuff I write, and
for that matter, much of what
I recommend. Interesting
characters go up against steep
odds, and often they get hurt
physically and/or emotionally.
Then they take care of each
other, because I hate handwaving
the consequences like heroism
gets people hurt. It's just
not a soft-contact activity.
So if you don't want your heroes
to burn out like little
firecrackers, they need patching
up afterwards.
Hurt/comfort fiction is all
about reminding people that
things go wrong, and what matters
is how you deal with that.
I'd say post your story. You
don't write carelessly. You've
probably written something that
somebody out there is wishing
it existed.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-01 12:15 pm (UTC)I also feel like PTSD gets trivialized -- every fic writer ever, just about, is all "PTSD = nightmares!" and no. It's a lot more complicated than nightmares. And it shouldn't be just thrown in to be a plot point, any more than any other disability.
I am particularly tired of "non-disabled person helps person with PTSD get over it!" because often? It does not fucking work like that, and huge numbers of us learn to cope without any help at all. And others of us never can, and wind up eating a bullet because we can't cope.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-01 12:37 pm (UTC)Seconding this. I've very, very rarely seen it well done. Where's the fic where the partner goes "Here's a cookie and a cup of tea, I'll be in the kitchen when you need me."? Or where they sit down and discuss triggers, in a "This is my day to day life" kind of way?
A lot of fics I've seen dealing with PTSD seem to have being triggered as just being a bit flinchy. Something that can be "overcome" if you just cuddle hard enough.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-01 01:00 pm (UTC)I'm not sure I'd label what you've described as H/C - the hurt in question is not completely resolved period, let alone by the relationship or 'Magic Cock/Vagina' - and resolution of the hurt via the comfort of a friend/lover is usually the hallmark of a H/C fic.
As someone with PTSD, I tend to find that there are people in my life who make it easier to cope with for a time, and over time I've learnt things to make coping with it easier. However I don't see there ever being a time when the traumas that caused it will fade away to nothing, and I think that you've captured that well with what you've said here.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-01 01:07 pm (UTC)Yeah this. It's not being a bit flinchy, it's not "I had a nightmare and we cuddled", it's not "This person who has no fucking clue what I went through magically knows the key to helping me cope". It's a fundamental alteration of self and how you interact with the world.
It gets used as a plot point over. And. Over. And. Over. Again. Often by people who do not have PTSD, let alone any experience with the situation that supposedly caused it for the char, so they fuck up writing the origin, they fuck up writing the PTSD, and they fuck up writing Magical Healing Sex or Cuddles or whatever.
I live this shit. It deeply affects my life in fundamental, painful ways. I am sick and tired of seeing fic writers treat it as a very poorly done plot point. My life and my disabilities should not be treated like a plaything.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-01 01:51 pm (UTC)I also agree about PTSD being trivialised by a lot of writers. There seems to be a tendency to tokenise it, taking only a couple of symptoms of the whole; usually the ones that pretty much everyone experiences from time to time, like nightmares, or discomfort with certain situations. It irks me even more because there are many people online who talk about their experiences of PTSD in various contexts - combat, assault, abuse, etc. - so it isn't like there isn't research information out there to make use of.
Whilst I do have people in my life who have helped with my PTSD, a lot of my coping strategies are things I learnt on my own, without outside help of friends, family or professional help. I spent a great deal of my late teens and early-to-mid twenties dancing on the edge of a metaphorical cliff, using coping skills that were far from healthy. It took me a long time to get to point where I LIVE with PTSD rather than exist with it.
(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-01 05:41 pm (UTC)I tried to portray the character's reactions realistically, and in ways that are less stereotypical than those currently favored by most of my fandom. For instance, he spends a lot of the fic acting on an overwhelming instinct to go somewhere safe, which would be much easier if there were an actual safe place (canonically, there isn't) as opposed to places where there's only marginally less risk of death than otherwise. He also gets angry at a loudspeaker that (as per canon) addresses him directly and tells him to give up because it's hopeless (in much more colorful, chilling terms). Later in the fic, he also tries to handle things productively, by checking and double-checking that they're not being approached by monsters (a reasonable thing to expect in their canon).
There's also no healing sex.
Does that sound more realistic to you?
(frozen) (no subject)
Date: 2013-05-01 08:05 pm (UTC)No. No it doesn't. PTSD does not mean you get angry at fucking inanimate objects like loudspeakers.
Go read what people with PTSD have written about living with it. But if you're not living it, then you will never understand it and your writing about that is going to show that you're just one more non-disabled author using OUR LIVES for your playtoy.
Ask yourself if the character would even HAVE PTSD. A minority of people in traumatic situations come out of it with the disorder. Being scared because of bad memories is not the same as PTSD. Getting angry at a loudspeaker? NOT FUCKING PTSD. Being paranoid? Not PTSD.
Learn the difference between hypervigilance and paranoia. Learn the difference between "scared because this is similar to a bad memory" and "being swallowed whole by horror."
You keep coming here and trying to use your other community to ask crips to lay themselves bare for you so you can use their lives and experiences to play pretendy funtimes games in your fic. It's odious and tiresome. Go write something that doesn't require you to cannibalize other human beings.
Mod note
Date: 2013-05-01 09:00 pm (UTC)For beta requests, please post in the following format:
Type of media: Fanfic, vid, podfic, meta or essay, art, etc.
Fandom: (source or original work)
Author/Creator: yourself, generally, but may be someone else
Brief description: of the work and what sort of beta notes you are looking for
Link: back to your own journal, or to wherever the further details of the beta request are.
This policy can be found on the community's profile page.
Thanks,
Your Access-Fandom Mod.
(frozen) (no subject)
Date: 2013-05-01 09:21 pm (UTC)According to our profile: If anything makes you uncomfortable or unsafe, please contact a moderator.
This thread is now frozen. Thank you.
Re: Mod note
Date: 2013-05-01 10:49 pm (UTC)Re: Mod note
Date: 2013-05-02 12:12 am (UTC)(frozen) Re: Mod note
Date: 2013-05-02 01:45 pm (UTC)1) Claiming you're here for meta-discussion would be more believable if you didn't make all of your replies about you and your fic. Obvs I'm not the mood and the actual mood apparently doesn't care, but hey.
2) You post a lot in disability communities that were started by PWD for discussion of things that matter to us. Your posts are pretty much always demands for information you can use to write fanfic. When you do this, you are making some of us feel unsafe, because it makes us feel like you are only here to use us as research tools.
And sorry, mod, but I know this had been brought up with you at least once and you apparently don't like confrontation or don't care that this person is making actual crips feel threatened. And when I get backed into a corner and snap, I get slapped and the person pushing gets a cookie. So no, I'm not contacting you privately, because I don't trust you to deal with it.
Chordates, you need to try listening. And by that I mean stop with the endless badgering us with questions. You are asking for intimate information from us, the inner workings of our lives. Your questions would be more appropriately addressed to friends. If you don't HAVE any friends with disabilities, them you need to ask yourself why that is and do some serious self-reflection on whether you see us as anything but tools for your pretendy fun times games.
Crips who want to talk about the intimate details of living with their disabilities have written quite a lot of publicly available information. Google is your friend. Use it. Not getting exactly what you want? Coming into our communities and demanding it is an asshole move. We are not your trained monkeys.
We are also not here to give you cookies for wanting to write us into your fic. Some of us will, sure, but some of us are sick and tired of normies expecting us to perform on cue. Ask yourself why that might be so.
In the meantime, you need to talk less, listen more. Do your research without quizzing people. And when you come into crip-centric spaces, stop making everything about you and your fic. Try having entire discussions without bringing your fic, your fandom, and your desire for approval into it. But most of all, try listening and accepting that you shouldn't be guiding every discussion inn order to pry out information you want to use. Accept that we may not want to describe what you want to know about.
Like any author who wants to write about something s/he has no personal experience of, you need to read, listen, and then just go write, and if you fuck up then take your lumps and do better next time.
(frozen) Re: Mod note
Date: 2013-05-02 02:25 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2013-05-03 11:22 am (UTC)The whole premise of h/c to me has always seemed to be about one character getting to take care of another and being 'awesome' in their care giving and the hurt character feeling lucky and loved and somehow someone loving them while they deal with trauma, or 'despite' their trauma is part of the 'ooooh'.
And that's the part, at least for me, that's disgusting.
You seem (having not read your story, only what you've mentioned here), to be talking about writing a scenario of 'One bad day in the process of healing', with an understanding and admittance in the fic that there are good days and bad days and 'comfort' being mostly 'Hey, I understand you / I remember how it felt / I'll just be over here while you get this out of your system'. Cause sometimes there are bad days and things trigger.
If you're not setting something up as 'Oh, he's so fragile now' etc.. etc... It should be a worthwhile attempt.
And I say attempt because, you'll probably miss some things that won't be pointed out until your story's public and read.
Just keep in mind that your story should never have the situation be all about how the trauma disabled individual is a 'loving burden' or 'is so broken' or how the non-traumatized person 'is so strong and brave and loving' - as I'd said before.
PTSD is not a fever for a story about being brought chicken soup and being too weak to stand and what wouldn't one do without a friend to put on cool cloths and bring water. Unfortunately, that's how it's been treated a LOT; that's how the genre developed. Taking fevers and broken legs and non violent injuries and putting violent sexual assault and war trauma and other trauma's (childhood abuse, etc..) in their place. Totally out of scope and scale.