jesse_the_k: Baby wearing black glasses bigger than head (eyeglasses baby)
[personal profile] jesse_the_k posting in [community profile] access_fandom

It’s a cool concept, hides clutter in your room. Also creates barriers.

Zoom virtual backgrounds combine you in the foreground with something nifty in the background. (Think the weather reporter on TV in front of a big US map.) In the past week I've seen the prow of a ship, inside of Tardis, comets, the Hamilton stage and more. Zoom itself says This feature works best with a green screen and uniform lighting, to allow Zoom to detect the difference between you and your background. -- which is not equipment most people have at home!

The Zoom software uses clever algorithms to isolate your outline from what your camera captures. But these algorithms often fail for delicate edges, like hair or hands. Outcome: every movement captured on camera includes Zoom struggling to adjust the edges, which can result in your head and hands sparkling, flashing, or disappearing altogether.

It’s distracting and unpleasant for me when even one user has the virtual background. For some of us with migraine, vestibular issues, brain injury or epilepsy it can be a complete barrier.

Even if the software works perfectly, some of the available backgrounds include so much detail that it overwhelms your image. I can’t read your facial expression, much less your lips. This results in no benefit to using video at all.

Do you have issues with this aspect of Zoom? Are there benefits to the backgrounds that I'm missing?

haaates them!

Date: 2020-08-04 09:08 pm (UTC)
sonia: Quilted wall-hanging (Default)
From: [personal profile] sonia
Yep, I have issues with unsteadiness of the image when people use the virtual backgrounds. In addition it uses up a significant amount of brain power trying uselessly to see into reality and wondering what they're hiding.

And while they might hide economic differences that might be visible by seeing into people's homes, it also points them out, because older computers can't run them.

I have one teacher with the habit of making frequent eloquent gestures which swirled through her virtual background like smoke. Fortunately she responded to my comment that her virtual background was very distracting by turning it off and leaving it that way.

I think they're similar in function to fragrances and hair products. They make people feel better about themselves and possibly counteract shame in ways that seem harmless but can cause a great deal of harm to some of us.

(Thank you for the opportunity to rant!)

(no subject)

Date: 2020-08-04 09:16 pm (UTC)
azurelunatic: Vivid pink Alaskan wild rose. (Default)
From: [personal profile] azurelunatic
The one benefit I can think of that you haven't mentioned here is privacy.

* for people in your space who do not want to be on camera to possibly unknown people
* for the details of your house
* for things visible out any windows which can be used to find a precise location

This is useful for things like being (perceived as) a woman on the internet, which can come with stalkers in various gradations of obnoxiousness and danger.

(no subject)

Date: 2020-08-05 12:31 pm (UTC)
j00j: rainbow over east berlin plattenbau apartments (Default)
From: [personal profile] j00j
Additionally, keeping, say, surprise naked toddlers off camera is a concern, though most folks I know who have toddlers in the home keep the camera off if they're able to get near the computer.

I don't have an obvious access issue with the backgrounds, but I do find them distracting. My current setup reveals my bed if I don't use a background, so I may invest in one of those chair-attached green screens. Ugh.

An additional access concern I haven't seen mentioned: Zoom supports *video* backgrounds. So things are moving in the background. The gently waving palm tree on that beach is cute, but it's definitely an additional layer of accessibility fail.

(no subject)

Date: 2020-08-05 09:38 pm (UTC)
azurelunatic: Vivid pink Alaskan wild rose. (Default)
From: [personal profile] azurelunatic
The living room layout means that I'm in the background of my partner's work meetings, just a little, unless I avoid my desk or the dining room table. I know most of their immediate co-workers, but not on a level where I'm necessarily comfortable appearing in my pajamas.

They also do meetings with a larger range of people who aren't co-workers (some are members of the general public) and I would very much dislike it if video containing my fat, disabled body became an internet laughingstock sensation.

(no subject)

Date: 2020-08-04 11:09 pm (UTC)
melannen: Commander Valentine of Alpha Squad Seven, a red-haired female Nick Fury in space, smoking contemplatively (Default)
From: [personal profile] melannen
My first response to your point that it results in "no benefit to using video" is that I often see them recommended/used in situations like work calls that should have been just audio in the first place but aren't - they can be a way of wresting back some privacy or control. (I think sometimes the bad visual aspects are a feature not a bug here, if you're resenting being forced to turn on your camera might as well make it as painful as possible for the person forcing you! And the distrotion itself can add to the privacy aspect too; hard to be judged for your hairdo when it's half-invisible.)

In less formal settings they seem to be getting used sort of like lj icons - as an additional channel of communication/identity (partly because of how bad zoom video/audio often is anyway.) I've even been on a few v. large social calls where people use them almost as emoji - frequently changing them to visually signal a response to the conversation that's visible even in small boxes with 20+people onscreen, and without having to take over the focus of the call.

I agree that they can be really disconcerting and make it hard to focus and act as a barrier to access. Especially in a situation like a class where one person is going to be the visual focus for nearly the whole session, and needs to be visually in focus - in that situation it's hard to think of any use case that's worth the downsides of making people deal with the distortion.

(no subject)

Date: 2020-08-05 01:52 am (UTC)
davidgillon: A pair of crutches, hanging from coat hooks, reflected in a mirror (Default)
From: [personal profile] davidgillon
Not actually used Zoom as yet, but it strikes me it would be a comparatively trivial fix to the software to allow users to substitute a neutral background for any virtual background they happen to be receiving.

Worth suggesting to them as an accessibility fix?

(no subject)

Date: 2020-08-05 02:08 am (UTC)
hellofriendsiminthedark: A simple lineart of a bird-like shape, stylized to resemble flames (Default)
From: [personal profile] hellofriendsiminthedark
Users can already do that though--they can use whatever image or video they want as the background.

But because it's like... cool accessible greenscreen technology that most non-techy folks don't get to play with normally, they're using it to have fun by putting all kinds of weird stuff in the background. Or for the very professional adults, they're setting their backgrounds to pretty landscapes or fancy offices or whatever as both a way to mask whatever their real environment looks like as well as a way to boost others' perception of them.

Asking individual folks within a call to pick a neutral/static background may solve situation-specific issues, though, like the other person who said their teacher willingly turned off their background as a response to the raised concern.

(no subject)

Date: 2020-08-05 03:18 am (UTC)
azurelunatic: Vivid pink Alaskan wild rose. (Default)
From: [personal profile] azurelunatic
I think [profile] davidgillion was suggesting the opposite -- if Anna's background is the interior of the TARDIS while in a call with Bit, and Bit is starting to get a migraine, it would be fantastic if Bit could tell Zoom to not show the TARDIS and instead show a neutral background, without having to ask Anna to change it (and so Charlotte, who is also in the call, still sees the TARDIS).
Edited Date: 2020-08-05 03:20 am (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2020-08-05 03:49 am (UTC)
hellofriendsiminthedark: A simple lineart of a bird-like shape, stylized to resemble flames (Default)
From: [personal profile] hellofriendsiminthedark
Oh, I see! My bad for not reading more closely. Yes, that would be an excellent feature and would do wonders to shift the burden of self-advocacy off of disabled users.

(no subject)

Date: 2020-08-07 01:52 pm (UTC)
davidgillon: A pair of crutches, hanging from coat hooks, reflected in a mirror (Default)
From: [personal profile] davidgillon
Exactly this. (Well, apart from only one 'i' in Gillon).

(no subject)

Date: 2020-08-05 02:39 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jazzyjj
Hmmmm, interesting discussion. I was on a Zoom call just yesterday where one of the participants--who is sighted but does have a physical disability--had technical issues and didn't end up coming through. This individual never had trouble in the past afaik. Her audio was bad so I'm wondering if this background thing was the cause. On a related note, I've checked out Zoom on the Mac with VoiceOver and the 2 seem to get along rather nicely. I'm told their iOS app works well too with VoiceOver. In recent years though it seems I've just never been able to find enough time to sit around and play with all this cool tech stuff. Lol perhaps one of these years I'll strike gold.

(no subject)

Date: 2020-08-05 04:17 am (UTC)
rosefox: Green books on library shelves. (Default)
From: [personal profile] rosefox
Another factor is that the backgrounds use a lot of computing power and can make Zoom run more poorly on the end of the person using the background, which can make their video poorer quality in general. My old computer couldn't use them at all. When I got a new one, if I want to use a virtual background, I do use a portable green screen that attaches to my office chair, set up a standing lamp for better lighting, and put my laptop on a desk instead of my lap so the image is steady. I'm not at all photosensitive but I really can't stand the wavery effect around people's hands if they don't have a good setup. I had to ask one coworker to turn his off because he has very animated body language and it was incredibly distracting to watch him melt in and out of his background.

For my own part, I only use a background if it's serving a specific purpose. When I presented at a conference, I wanted a more professional atmosphere than my slightly messy room. When friends and I did a play reading on Zoom, we shared background images in advance and collectively used them as our "stage". For our family Passover Seder, my brother used photos of our childhood home as his background so we could feel like we were all together in a place where we'd had so many wonderful holidays together. But unless there's a real reason for that kind of stage-setting, I skip it.

(no subject)

Date: 2020-08-05 05:25 am (UTC)
thistleingrey: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thistleingrey
The Zoom app on my (2019 flagship) Android phone doesn't have the option to use a background. I think they're laptop only, to add to the "who has access" remarks that people have mentioned above.

(no subject)

Date: 2020-08-07 06:44 am (UTC)
thistleingrey: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thistleingrey
Ah, good to know. I wonder whether it's partly that there are fewer Android users than iOS ones, at least in North America. (Certainly it's common for software companies to release slightly different feature sets for iOS and Android.)

(no subject)

Date: 2020-08-06 11:25 am (UTC)
fred_mouse: line drawing of sheep coloured in queer flag colours with dream bubble reading 'dreamwidth' (Default)
From: [personal profile] fred_mouse

I loathe the backgrounds.

(no subject)

Date: 2020-08-10 06:08 am (UTC)
peoriapeoriawhereart: Mr. Rogers changes bulb on traffic light (Traffic Light wanted change)
From: [personal profile] peoriapeoriawhereart
While I've not seen it on a live call, I've seen a case where the background applied solely to the person instead (maybe there were a couple of patches actually on a ceiling.)

The issue that does come up is that people have come to expect two-way interfacing and think if someone doesn't have a camera they can't see video and no mic means they need to call in because they get no sound.

Is there a way to get Zoom to just throw a still image? Because, I've seen LOTS of limited bandwidth artifacts and that's going to be even more of an issue as the school year gets underway.

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