(no subject)

[chordatesrock]

Do any of you feel like you need to include All The Reactions like I do? Do you think this is related to internalized ableism?

Comments

[cantarina]

It could be internalized ableism. I wouldn't be surprised if it was also wanting to see better, more varied representation, especially if you have a tendency to try and do All of the Things.

[staranise]

I've been thinking more. In a way I guess it's almost anticipating that the text will be read in an ableist manner--Reader X will read it and go, "Ah, so that is the Sum Total of Disability"--and trying to completely pre-empt it, so that it can't be read in an ableist manner. In this case, by trying to actually include the Sum Total of Disability.

But you can't actually pull it off; if you include Every Thing About Disability Ever, then the ableist reading is that PWDs' lives are All About Disability, because if you've got all that in there, you'd have to bust your butt like anything to include some actual plot in there. It's not a standard anyone should expect you to actually reach.

I lean towards "varied representation" more than "complete representation". Right now, there already is so much All the Things in published fiction about disability that a lot of PWDs think they're not really disabled, because they [don't use a wheelchair/work full-time/don't need a live-in assistant/whatever].

[chordatesrock]

I think that's part of it, in that I'm used to "but what about [specific experience of disability]?" being used to shut me up.

I wonder how long a fic would have to be to include Everything About Disability Ever and still include a non-disability-related plot. My best guess is that you could get all the personal relationships to disability (without necessarily including All The Nuance) with about eight or nine different characters. To include All The CND Reactions (Now With 90% Less Nuance), you'd need about eleven different family member reactions, and then you need about... I don't know, a thousand different reactions from strangers? If a stranger's reaction can be covered in an average of a hundred words (counting both the large number of very short reactions-- "'Who are you with, dear?' PWD rolled xyr eyes and wheeled away"-- and the few that will need to be much longer) and a family member's reaction in a thousand words, then the disability reactions will take 101,000 words, assuming that the PWDs' own feelings show through during the other scenes. To make that anything other than the majority of the book (or, honestly, series) would require a save-the-world plotline taking up at least 101,000 more words. To be able to include nuance, repetition and enough non-disability-related content to drown out the disability would require a very long series indeed. Perhaps if I spent my entire life on it...

[elialshadowpine]

See, to me... I don't think that's viable. And, I think there is some amount of ableism in the expectation (from other people!) that PWDs should Write All The Things About Disability Ever (and I have seen this, good lord; I also have for other minorities that I count as).

For me, personally, I try to include characters with disabilities, because I am sick to death of not seeing them in fiction. I tend to focus on the things closest to me first, generally because they are what call me to write them most, because I have Things To Say being that it's also my life. I wouldn't rule out writing something different, if a particular character called for it, but at this point, that is what I am focusing on.

I think that it is problematic to expect onesself to be able to write about All The Things With And Related To Disability, Ever. I can understand WHY you feel that way. There's so very little representation, and of what there is, so much of it is poorly done.

(For instance, I read a lot of steampunk, and the steampunk amputee with a mechanical arm is at this point a cliche. I can probably count on one hand the number of books I have read that have handled it with the appropriate gravitas. And no, I don't mean just emotional reaction, but the physical reactions as well. I have read a book where a character is mostly replaced by artificial body parts, and she is very ho-hum about it because it's normalized in her world and line of work -- but the physical changes and adjustments and stuff and medical concerns are still discussed and focused on. Unlike most, where it's literally just... okay gonna stop ranting now.)

(I apologize for the ramble, my pain meds hit and WHOOMPH, this makes me chatty as fuck. Sorry!)

I think what is MORE important than trying to do All The Things by onesself is to encourage other writers. I hang out in a lot of writerly groups and something I try to talk to people about is assumption. Being that, most people default characters to straight, white, able-bodied, neurotypical, etc. I participate in brainstorming with a lot of folks, and I ask them to THINK actively about their character. WHY are they such and such? What if they were black? Or mentally ill? Or disabled with a pain condition? What if they were bisexual? What if, what if, what if. (I will caveat that I hang mostly in original fiction spaces, not fanfic.)

Most people, seriously, go straight to default, and that results in yet more stories about characters that are status quo. Some people, after hearing me ask these questions, come up with reasons for their character to be such and such. Some of them, though, realize that there are so many other things they could do, and it sparks their imagination. (And then, depending on what they are interested in, I offer 101 links so they hopefully don't fuck up too bad.)

I really feel very strongly that it should not be all on us, for whatever group we are a part of, to write stories about people like us. If we want to, that is our choice, but I also have run into the underlying assumption in many spaces that we should write about people "like us", and leave straight white able-bodied etc to write about people "like them", and that's just full of problems. (And yes, some of them will get it wrong, but I have to say, and I say this ***for me*** that I would rather see people try in good faith and make mistakes than not try at all. I realize opinions differ there. :)

Argh, I think I wrote a novel in your comments. o.o But I think what I am trying to say is, don't take it on all alone. That is a massive, massive undertaking, and just in your comments here, it sounds like it stresses and worries you -- and that is, IME, a road trip to burn-out. I'm not telling you to not include PWDs, hardly! But not to feel like you are singlehandedly responsible for this. It's a joint effort... we just need to get more people in on it. :)

[chordatesrock]

I don't think it's viable, either. Maybe if I spent my entire life on it, it would be, but I'd still have to cut out most of the nuances. Thank you for validating that I don't have to bear full responsibility for writing Everything About Disability Ever.

I feel that your long comments have been full of interesting ideas. Thank you.

I'm trying to encourage other writers, too. I created accessportrayal to help, because I think that, beyond just wanting representation, I want good representation. I do think that there's something to be said for just biting the bullet and doing it, especially if you're willing to learn from your mistakes and seek opportunities to become more educated. I approve of your way of encouraging people, too. Keep up the good work! :) Thank you! (Have you considered also helping by adding an article to accessportrayal?)

I know the amputee trope you're talking about. How do you feel about Fullmetal Alchemist?

[elialshadowpine]

Actually, I had no idea that community existed, so I'll check it out. What sort of stuff are you looking for? General how-to essays, or...?

I have generalized anxiety disorder so for me, in regards to writing about minorities I'm not part of, I have to just bite the bullet and write it -- otherwise I never will. I tend to be perfectionist, though, and my #1 anxiety trigger is around approval of other people. So, getting criticism can send me into a massive panic attack but for me, diversity is important enough to deal with it. But if I'm not careful, I'll spend forever and ever in the "learning, researching, and educating" phase because "What if..."

But I think part of that is also having to accept that even if you do follow all the 101s in the world, that it still doesn't fit everyone, and there will be people for whom you've gotten it wrong, because it doesn't fit their experience. And that's just natural, because no group is a monolith. :)

I have not actually seen Fullmetal Alchemist so I have no opinion there. I actually don't know much about the show!

[chordatesrock]

There's a suggested completely optional template, but the goal of any given essay should be that a clueless writer reads it and anything linked to, and afterward, if xe includes a character with the condition, xe doesn't make any of the common mistakes and people with the condition don't throw the book across the room.

[elialshadowpine]

... I'm going to PM you here because I think I have specific ideas, and that might be better discussed in PM rather than derailing this post more than it already has been!