Challenges, challenges, challenges

[kaz]

Here is one thing that I find frustrating about fandom: ficathons of the challenge variety.

It seems as if they're a very popular form of fandom participation; Yuletide is probably the best-known example, but I run into them absolutely everywhere. You know the format: person A signs up, receives a prompt and is asked to write a fic for it. Variations exist (e.g. A often writes a prompt they'd like to see filled of their own) but that's the general gist.

Now don't get me wrong, I find these pretty awesome ideas, and I imagine it could be very fun to participate! There is, however, just one eensy problem for me:

I really, honestly, cannot commit to things. I have autistic interest patterns, meaning I can't know when I will suddenly become possessed with the urge to play Morrowind, make jewellery or read Minesweeper fanfic 24/7 for three months straight. (Other people seem capable of still keeping up with their previous interests when a new one catches their attention. I am not.) I also have spoons to think of, and a) writing fiction is pretty spoon-consumptive for me, b) fandom *has* to be my last priority when it comes to spoon allocation. Because, you see, the spoons I spend on filling out a challenge fic might be the ones I needed to make it to university tomorrow. And then there's the awful soul-sucking guilt of not being able to follow through on things I promised, which may easily set off a downwards spiral for me. Fandom is something I do to *relax*, but fic challenges and the like actually contribute so much pain and angst for me that I wind up fleeing back to my day job.

"But if you can't fill your prompt, you should just e-mail the people running the challenge and explain!"

Er, a few problems with that.

Number one. Some people will probably be quite happy to accept "work is killing me" or "my dog died" or "my computer ate my fic nom nom nom" as reasons for dropping out, but may look askance at "so my interests have switched to this mind-numbing Flash game" or "I just don't have the spoons for it" or "I don't know why, I just start crying every time I think about the challenge" or, you know, "my fibromyalgia has flared up again" or other disability-related issues because I am not the only person who has these problems. Some people will demand reasons. I don't know whether the organisers fall into the "some" category ahead of time, and I don't like being forced to explain my disability to a possibly unsympathetic audience.

Number two. I have pretty massive social anxiety related to e-mail; LJ messages are somewhat better but not much. Somehow the act of sitting down and composing a formal message - not an LJ comment - to another person makes me panic about accidentally violating some to-me-unknown social norm and being massively rude without knowing and making the other person hate me. Furthermore, as this is also true for RL my letter and e-mail spoons go to RL things that I desperately have to do or else I'll be kicked out of uni/thrown out of my accommodation/have my bank account closed on me/etc. For me, there is no "just" in "just e-mail..."

Number three. If you have written anything of the "we will be kind of unhappy if you drop out without a good reason >(" variety, in fact if you haven't explicitly made it clear that dropping out is acceptable, I have probably worked myself up into such a state about this that I cannot, actually, think about the challenge without starting to cry. Attempting to communicate that I am dropping out to you, in a format I'm not very comfortable with, will probably end with me huddled in a ball in a corner somewhere before I even reach "Dear XYZ". Hell, I *still* feel miserable whenever I think about femgenficathon and that was over a year ago.

So. Yeah. This is the reason I am probably never going to participate in a fic challenge again, despite the fact that it seems as if it could be really fun and I'd like to try my hand at some of those prompts and everyone is talking about Yuletide and I would sooo like to participate and it makes me a very sad Kaz. :(

I am not going to demand that people change the format of things entirely just to accommodate me, but. Here are some suggestions of things you could do to make things possible for me, and other disabled people who might have these kinds of problems.

- Allow for people to drop out, even drop out without being able to tell you, and make clear that this is not ZOMG the end of the world in the rules.
- Communicate that you will accept any reason for dropping out and specifically that you are sympathetic to the difficulties people with disabilities might have.
- Have a page specifically on what to do if you feel like you can't continue! Something that would be *very* helpful for me specifically would be to have a post that people can comment on if they feel like they can't continue, with an example comment that you can c&p if you can't manage to say in your own words that you can't make it. If you insist on having it be via e-mail, provide a form e-mail people can simply c&p.
- In addition to the actual challenge, have a group of prompts that people can simply try filling out, or have some prompts you assign to people with no obligation to finish them.
- Have flexible deadlines; this one's less useful for me (because it's filling the prompt *at all* that's the problem) but probably very useful for other disabled people. Have similar clear guidelines and "it's okay if this happens" and pre-formatted e-mails for asking for a deadline extension, or just say that posting late is fine.
- Don't immediately ban someone who doesn't finish and doesn't tell you beforehand.

I have never run a ficathon so I don't know how realistic these are, but if a challenge did all of these I might actually be able to participate.

ETA because this is not clear: I totally understand that not all of these are reasonable for every challenge, that in fact some of them are very unrealistic for strictly exchange-based challenges, and that changing *existing* challenges is a rather different beast from making new challenges more accessible. I suppose this post is partially "I would like you to keep this in mind if you are thinking of creating a challenge" (e.g. either getting away from strict exchange-based format entirely or adding in options for people who probably can't commit to that) and partially "If you are currently running any kind of challenge, it would be really really cool if you'd do this" (form letters for drop-outs. This is actually the #1 thing I'd like to see, because I honestly have trouble describing just how difficult writing a simple e-mail can be.) Sorry for any confusion!

Comments

[princessofgeeks]

I have watched, year in and year out, yuletide go by with a sort of dazed amazement, mostly because I can't imagine knowing enough about that many fandoms to write fic for them, or even READ fic for them.

but I know very well that feeling of "there goes a bright shiny thing that people in fandom love and I don't" and the "I'm left out" feeling that follows on its heels.

I have had to relentlessly prioritize what I can and cannot do in fandom, for reasons quite different from yours, but I so relate to the need to know what works and what doesn't for an individual and to try to let go of what doesn't work.

but it is hard -- that "left out" feeling.

Thank you for posting about your issues with email. I had no idea and that's good information for me.

*hugs*

[elf]

Tangential.

This year's Yuletide has over 3,000 nominated fandoms... but people only have to sign up to write three or four. And as fascinating as the really obscure fandoms are (wow, someone else read An Episode of Sparrows by Rumer Godden?), there are plenty of relatively well-known fandoms that just don't have much online support... the Vorkosigan series, Burn Notice, Anita Blake books, Dr' Seuss's The Lorax, and so on. (Not that anyone thinks Seuss is "a fandom" except in the sense that "umm, sure, someone could write fic about that.")

It's just easy to get dizzy looking at the BIG list of "all those fandoms I've never heard of," and not notice, "hey, there's about forty here that I kinda like and could maybe write for."

But that's different from the whole signups and deadline issues.

[princessofgeeks]

yuletide is an amazing phenomenon that is completely sideways to the way I enjoy fandom. It doesn't match up with how I enjoy the source material or the fandom I'm currently writing for in any particular.

i'm so happy to see the people who can do it, enjoying it so much. but it's totally not for me.

[rian_aphasia]

The Anita Blake fandom has little online support for the same reason Anne Rice's stuff does; the Anne Rice and Laurell K. Hamilton themselves have made it pretty clear that they don't want fanfic about their stuff around, and they're willing to sue (or in Anne Rice's case, literally stalk fanfic authors) over it.

/off topic

[kaz]

but I know very well that feeling of "there goes a bright shiny thing that people in fandom love and I don't" and the "I'm left out" feeling that follows on its heels.

Yeah. :(

It sometimes surprises me what really sets it off - for instance, I pretty much can't watch video or listen to recorded speech on my own (weird sensory issues + humiliation squick the size of Jupiter + suspense squick the size of Saturn + more weird sensory issues, I think), which is a HUGE issue for fandom participation, but it usually doesn't bother me much. I'm not that fussed when people on my flist start squeeing about vids or podfics because I have no urge to watch that kind of medium anyway (or if I do, I try it and remind myself how awful it is for me.) I'm often not even that sad about being unable to watch the canon for a fandom I'm in, provided I am well-equipped with transcripts and possibly screencaps. Or at least Wikipedia. But fests? BAWWWWWWWW. ;_;

I think it's especially a matter of "is there a community thing growing around this?" for me. Because people reccing vids or podfics are isolated incidents (and I don't search out the vidding or podfic community for obvious reasons), and even people watching a canon tends to be isolated. OTOH, if there's a reaction post for an episode I start looking at it and going "I bet they're all having fun and I can't join. *sniff*" As you say, it's the whole feeling left out thing.

Thank you for posting about your issues with email. I had no idea and that's good information for me.

They're so normal for me that I keep forgetting other people have no idea such things can happen! >>

[sasha_feather]

This is a really excellent post. Thank you. I'm going to chew on it a while.

Some things that were helpful for me in a recent challenge I participated in:

--The mods allowed in things like art, icons, podfic recordings, rec lists, meta analyses, and vids; so that people who are not writers or who have writing anxiety can also participate in the challenge

--There is a long amnesty period

--The participation threshold is pretty low

--They allow co-authors/co-participants, so people can participate together, which I think is a strategy people use for lessening anxiety about accomplishing tasks and making it more fun.

--The mods do a good job of making a safer space for participants in the community

--The rules are clear and easy to find, there is a clear tagging system, there is a wiki for learning about the prompts

All of these are so rightly Access issues, and yet I hadn't framed it quite in that way before. Brava to you, Kaz.

[thingswithwings]

thanks very much for this. I co-mod kink_bingo, which is pretty low stress as far as fandom challenges go, but reading your post makes me realise that there's room for improvement in terms of making our challenge more accessible. Having a page, linked off of the profile or something, that tells folks what to do if they can't finish, is an excellent idea, to start with, and I'm taking the rest of your advice to heart as well. Thanks for using up some spoons to write this post and help us mods understand the community's needs a little better!

[dhobikikutti]

Thank you for posting about this. I look at people who for various reasons have told me they are not comfortable with participating in Yuletide, and I wonder how it could be made more accessible for them.

I think your suggestion of alternate ways of participation is excellent. I know Yuletide has the pinch-hitters system, and the Yuletide madness, but it is not open for people not already signed up and in the data base. Perhaps we could suggest that there be a mechanism for people who wish to only sign up for that, without penalty of default?

I would also like to point out for selfish reasons eid_ka_chand, which runs an entirely voluntary ficathon, with no penalty for not posting even if you said you might, and where we are happy to have fiction posted at any time.

[ephemera]

I'm one of the co-mods for Make the Yuletide Gay, the current popslash sesa, and we've moved to allowing people who have not signed up for the main exchange to sign up as pitch-hitters, which has worked well, in terms of letting more people get involved and in terms of widening the pitch-hit pool.

(I've also run non-exchange orientated ficathons and challenges which were not exchange-oriented, where you can be a lot more laid-back about people dropping out.)

[hl]

Er, I had understood that the pinch-hitters could be non participants, as well. The FAQ says 'You do not have to be a Yuletide participant to be a pinch hitter!' Though I would guess pinch hitting is even more stressing than signing up, and though perhaps a shorter term commitment, it's pretty hard to catch an assignment (I tried!).

Self-pimping time: If anyone likes Austen, we have a sort of mini-fests (first one, current one) organized back to back, no commitment, just a week to answer a post with a list (or lists) of prompts that respond to the mini-fest's theme (the first one was interstitial fic, the second one is Halloween), and then two weeks to write in short stories (drabbles or double drabbles, but we're not strict with the word count). There are only around three people participating for sure (but we had seven on the first), and you don't have to even sign up, nor there's any penalty for answering prompts and not filling prompts, nor the other way around.

[dhobikikutti]

My understanding is that if you have not previously signed up for Yuletide, you must be assigned a pinch hit, and commit to it, in order to be able to upload a story or treat. If there was any way to change that so people could catch the pinch hits as they pleased in order to write additional stories (not, of course, being the assigned one), and therefore also jump into yuletide madness, we might get more participants and also more stories.

I say this entirely understanding the massive weight on Elyn and Astolat's shoulders, especially with the switch over to AO3, and that it might not be feasable.

[hl]

Oh, I didn't know that. I did know that one had to ask for a pinch hit, and be assigned, but I didn't know it was different for participants.

[yvi]

Everyone can join the New Year's Resolution challenge from January to the next sign-ups, though. Unfulfilled requests go up here: http://www.yuletidetreasure.org/get_unfilled_requests.cgi and everyone can write a 1,000+ words for it and upload the story.

Not relevant for this year, as it will close soon, but it might be some fun for people next year - there's no committing at all.

[torachan]

I really wish this could be changed, too. I would love to be able to just write treats for people.

[were_duck]

I don't think it'd be possible to run Yuletide in particular under the terms you suggest, just because it's a gift exchange based around the holiday season. It's not an easy-going type of challenge, you know? And some of us need that kind of hard line to give the kick in the pants we need to work through our writer's block.

However, I think even Yuletide does try to be open to other levels of participation. You can fill NYR requests from January through the rest of the year, and that doesn't require you to commit to anything, you just browse the prompts and upload sometime before the next round starts. If you don't finish the story for whatever reason, no worries.

I've seen lots of communities do prompt fests and things like that that might meet most if not all of your conditions.

These are good things to keep in mind to make challenges more accessible for a lot of participants, so I'm glad you posted about this, thank you.

[kaz]

Yeah, I don't think all of these are realistic for every challenge - especially not for Yuletide, le sigh. OTOH, I really think people should at least think about it so that they *know* there is a problem, and I think the sample e-mail/comment people can send off if they can't finish would be a very very helpful idea where I don't see how it would be a problem for pretty much any challenge. It's hard to describe, but for me the act of writing an e-mail can be *incredibly* draining, which means that if I am asked to compose a one-line e-mail saying "I'm sorry, I can't do this" this can be an insurmountable hurdle, whereas if I just had to c&p an already-given e-mail it would be more doable.

[dhobikikutti]

Good point.
And, in hindsight, if responding to all the comments this post generates gets exhausting, please don't feel you are obligated to.
"Out of spoons, cannot continue conversation" seems to me to be a perfectly acceptable response for online engagement.

[avendya]

That's a good idea, and one I will implement for my ficathons in future.

[were_duck]

Yes, totally. There's definitely room for Yuletide (and other challenges) to improve, and that would be an easy way for them to do it.

[elf]

Much nifty to think about.

I'm participating in Yuletide this year for the first time, because I have been enticed by the shiny. But I'm terrified. The whole signup and deadline thing is hectic and scary for me--and I have a full allotment of spoons; as long as I don't get stupid with my scheduling, I don't run out of energy in ways that'd make fic-fests hard to complete. (I run out of muse sometimes, but that's very different.)

I have been thinking about running fests for fandoms I love, and want very much to do something different from the "exchange prompts, assign deadlines, produce fic!" pattern. I want something that will encourage more participation from people who don't post as much fic, which means more dropout options, or less deadline strictures, or more open structure, or some combination of those things. You've given me a great list of starting ideas for different ways to arrange a fest. (If "fest" is the right word.)

I'd like more participation in smaller fandoms, where there aren't 50 well-known authors who will produce novel-length fic at the drop of a prompt. And that means more open fests, more variety of types of fests.

I'm pondering something like "if you drop out, it's okay to post your starting notes & outline instead of a whole story, if you'd like that." A way to share part of the shiny & fun, even if it didn't gel into a completed story, or you ran out of spoons. Because sometimes, it's fun to discuss the story ideas and plotbunnies, too.

Also considering somehow making space for "I started writing for Prompt X, but the story shifted somehow and it no longer fits into Prompt X at all, but damn, now I have 5,000 words of nifty fic that doesn't belong in this fest." Allowing those to be posted doesn't relate directly to disability issues, but is one more way of saying, "YES WE WANT YOU TO PLAY." And also, I like tangling disability access with not-disability-related options, to make it more obvious that "accessibility" doesn't mean "let's help out the damaged people" but "let's make this work for as many people as possible."

I like the idea of very specific notes about what to do if you have to drop out. I suspect that just having those would prevent some dropouts--there's less pressure if you know what the options are and how they work, and "less pressure" means "more likely finished fic."

(Re: Yuletide--the no-pressure way to participate is to pick one of the unfilled requests, and write it on your own schedule.)

[sasha_feather]

And also, I like tangling disability access with not-disability-related options, to make it more obvious that "accessibility" doesn't mean "let's help out the damaged people" but "let's make this work for as many people as possible."

Bingo!

Edit to say, I mean "Bingo" in a good way, as in, yes that is exactly what I like to hear. Not Bingo as in, those anti-oppression bingo cards. Sorry if that was confusing!

[elf]

I did catch that, but thank you for clarifying, 'cos I heard it both ways first, and had to sort out, no, that doesn't sound like she's objecting (and if she were, wouldn't she say something more specific about it).

I get tired of how many people seem to think "accessibility" means "making special allowances for broken special people," rather than "making it available to more people." Or different groups of people, 'cos the ficathon ideas being discussed here won't work for a lot of people, but the ones who *love* banging out 5-15k word stories from a two-sentence prompt, with a 6-week deadline and heavy penalties for dropping out, are pretty much covered. We get lots of stories that are produced well under those settings. We don't get many stories that are produced on softer schedules, with less secrecy, more amnesty, more options for partial participation--and I'd like those. I'd like more fen to be involved with fic writing, and I'd like the chance to read their efforts, which I'm not gonna get if ficathons are all (or almost all) strict-deadline no-second-chance affairs.

And not just because of disability issues. I'm sure there are people who would LOVE to participate in Yuletide, and never can, 'cos their work/school/social calender is just booked from mid-October to the end of December.

I'd like to see less defensiveness when someone suggests more accessibility. Especially when they're not saying, "this thing here should change," but "it'd be nifty to have something similar to this thing here, only with some changes."

[kaz]

I get tired of how many people seem to think "accessibility" means "making special allowances for broken special people," rather than "making it available to more people."

This this this!! I mean, in the end of the day it doesn't matter whether I can't participate in something because of a diagnosed disability (or a *non*diagnosed disability), or whether Sarah McFiccer can't because she's completely overloaded with work, or whether Rachel Writerson can't because her muse just doesn't work that way - what matters is that there are people who'd like to participate in something but can't in the format it's given. And this ties in so well with things I have been reading about the medical vs. social models and how the second means you should stop getting away from seeing disability as *individual*, about "this person cannot do X because of Y", but as "some people who want to do Y have barriers others don't".

Also, re: booking from mid-October to end of December... yyeeah that's another consideration for me. I have wanted to do NaNo for *ages*, because I think it would really help me in terms of not thinking for so long about what I'm writing and being able to just sit down and bash out fic (I mean, I haven't written anything since *May*, this state of affairs is ridiculous) but honestly, November? End of term? NOT A GOOD TIME. And it just now occurs to me that the official NaNo response to this - "everyone can find time if they try!" is really fucking ableist. Among other things.

[liviapenn]

I mean, in the end of the day it doesn't matter whether I can't participate in something because of a diagnosed disability (or a *non*diagnosed disability), or whether Sarah McFiccer can't because she's completely overloaded with work, or whether Rachel Writerson can't because her muse just doesn't work that way - what matters is that there are people who'd like to participate in something but can't in the format it's given.

I think there is a difference there that matters, though. I mean, if Sarah *knows* that her work schedule precludes a large time commitment to some other project, then she shouldn't sign up for, say, a Big Bang challenge or Nanowrimo-- but there are lots of commentfic challenges or ficathons with 1000-word limits. If Rachel's muse isn't inspired by getting assigned one specific person's prompt, she should skip Yuletide or similarly assignment-based ficathons, and instead do challenges like kink_bingo or lgbtfest where there are huge long lists of prompts and you can pick whatever suits you. Etc.

Kaz has provided a lot of really interesting ideas for that most (if not all) challenges could be vastly improved, accessibility-wise, but as a mod, when it involves letting other people down, I think potential challenge participants have a responsibility to honestly gauge their own capacity to participate, and commit themselves accordingly. Obviously there are always things that people can't control-- illness, unexpected emergency, computer problems, and obviously the kind of autistic interest patterns and social anxiety that kaz is describing fall into this category.

But someone who's run fic challenges, I don't really have a lot of sympathy for people who would sign up for any kind of *exchange based* ficathon knowing ahead of time that something like their work schedule won't let them follow through. IMO, that's completely different than getting sick or having a family emergency or something like what kaz describes, that's totally unexpected and not under that person's control at all.

[kaz]

I think this part of the conversation has got away from how to improve a specific fic challenge and more about what one might think looking at the fic challenge world in general. By which I mean, yes, if Sarah knows her work schedule won't allow her to finish the fic she shouldn't sign up (although I don't think the difference between me and her is that clear, tbh - at this stage, I can guess from past experience that I will usually not be able to complete a fic challenge and also not be able to let the mod know before I even sign up for it - which is why I no longer do. That is to say, my difficulties are not under my control but at this point in time they're also not unexpected. :()

But if all the fic challenges Sarah is interested in participating in are such that she will not be able to complete them on account of her work, then she's just as effectively barred from participating as I am because of my various disability issues. In that case, we can go "hey, wouldn't it be cool if there were more challenges of an entirely different format, specifically geared at the Sarahs and Kazzes of this world?" (And, you know, striking the balance between not committing to things I probably can't do and still somehow managing to participate in things so that I'm not constantly stuck on the outskirts making sad faces is actually one of the main issues I face in my online life.)

So there are things people might consider when making a new challenge where they don't have a reason to have it in the same strict-exchange format, which are really quite different from the things someone who is currently running a challenge or who really wants theirs to adhere to the exchange format could implement. E.g. I totally understand that "let people drop out without notice" is completely unrealistic for a running exchange, and more something to ponder one when one is thinking of creating a challenge with the specific goal that people who wouldn't normally be able to participate could, but OTOH I don't see any reason why the form e-mail thing shouldn't be possible for all challenges. I should have probably divided that list up a bit better. >>

[liviapenn]

In that case, we can go "hey, wouldn't it be cool if there were more challenges of an entirely different format, specifically geared at the Sarahs and Kazzes of this world?"

I think.... hm. I do like the idea of running a dual-track challenge, where one track is strictly exchange-based (and has deadlines, penalties, length limits, etc.) and one track is non-exchange-based, with less restrictions and therefore more accessibility. It makes the same amount of sense as, for instance, allowing people to volunteer to either write or do fanart & request either fic or fanart-- it just lets more people play *and* it ends up contributing to the amount of fanworks dedicated to whatever you're running the ficathon for.

But, speaking as someone who's run challenges specifically as a means to *create* new fic about a certain genre/pairing/etc., I don't think really casual, completely non-exchange-based forms of ficathon are ever going to be all that popular, just because modding a challenge is really, really hard-- I mean, it's weeks if not months of work, constantly dealing with people who don't read the FAQ, constantly worrying that people won't turn in their stories, etc., etc. (Even on things like kink_meme I imagine you have to worry about modding flamewars, making sure trolls don't run amuck, etc.)

Given the choice, most mods would probably rather choose to run the type of ficathon where they *know* that all the hard work is going to be worth it in the end because X amount of stories are going to be created, no matter what... Then again, on the other hand, kink memes are rapidly becoming super popular (even White Collar, which just premiered, has a kink meme!) and comment_fic on lj still seems to be going strong, so who knows, maybe there *is* going to be a shift towards super-casual fic-fest type things with no deadlines or restrictions on length/genre/pairing/etc?

[secondsilk]

I do like the idea of running a dual-track challenge, where one track is strictly exchange-based (and has deadlines, penalties, length limits, etc.) and one track is non-exchange-based, with less restrictions and therefore more accessibility.

At the end of lgbtfest prompts that haven't been fulfilled can be written by anyone and linked to from a main post (rather than getting their own page on the comm). And ninebillion had an exchange and a free-prompt track. So I know that it has worked (well enough for me as a participant).

I hope this isn't off topic now. Also, I want to say to Kaz that I think the form email/comment-on-a-specific-post for extensions and withdrawing is an awesome idea.

[torachan]

Well, I don't think people can always predict when they'll be overloaded with work. Asking people to be psychic is not really helpful.

[liviapenn]

And that's why I said, "Obviously there are always things that people can't control-- illness, unexpected emergency, computer problems," etc.

Unexpected things always come up. I don't blame people for dropping out when something comes totally out of the blue and surprises them. However, I didn't get the sense that that's the kind of situation kaz was talking about in her original comment-- she was talking about someone who *wants* to participate in a particular challenge but *already* knows she can't because she's overloaded with work.

[vonquixote.livejournal.com]

We don't get many stories that are produced on softer schedules, with less secrecy, more amnesty, more options for partial participation--and I'd like those.

That would be lovely. I confess to being quite intimidated by the amount of secrecy and serious business attitudes that hang around challenges - and it's a shame, because I'd love to do the growth-as-a-writer do-something-not-familiar-to-you thing, but I don't like keeping secrets and loathe deadlines (deadlines are for work. this isn't work. and that's leaving aside the bit where sometimes it takes one three months to write five thousand words and that's the end of it, or the bit where anything sexual takes literally years because it's hot but also sort of revolting at the same time...).

By the way, and forgive me if there's a search term that actually yields this up and I just can't think of it: what, in the context that the word is used here, are 'spoons'? I've never heard the term before.

[noracharles]

the spoon theory

[elf]

The Spoon Theory, by Christine Miserandino. (Alternate HTML version, apparently posted w/o permission.)

If you've never directly dealt with long-term disabilities, especially the energy-draining kind, it's more than worth reading.

[kaz]

I see noracharles and "user name="elf"> already linked you. :) I did just want to point out that although the Spoon Theory is written about lupus, and chronic illnesses in general, it often gets applied to mental health/neurological/etc. issues as well and that's the context I use them in when I'm talking about spoons for myself. I find that there are some differences and ways it's not quite accurate, but there's still the "I need to do X somehow, and to do X I need to do Y, and for that I need Z and U, which means that although I'd really like to do W and V as well I can probably only do one at most and even that one's not certain" when most of these are things most currently-abled people won't even think about. (In this example, Y is going grocery shopping and Z is making myself ready to go out - put on socks, shoes and a coat and find my purse, take my helmet if I'm going cycling. I don't think most people think of these as draining, but for me there are frequently days where I can't even manage Z.)

[sqbr]

I don't write fic quickly or easily enough to do any sort of challenge anyway, but I had considered how even if I get faster and more prolific I would still probably never be able to do Yuletide.

I'm not sure why I do better with art exchanges, I seem to be able to chuck something halfway decent together in a day or so which means I know I have *something* to hand in if I have a sudden spoon shortage. But I'm not working at all any more so don't really have any higher priorities to worry about, I would never have volunteered while I was struggling through work.

Anyway, this is a good post.

And I think your suggestions would improve challenges for everyone: people who drop out unexpectedly for whatever reason feel really bad and make life difficult for the mods, so anything that makes the process of dropping out early easier, and gives people who think they might drop out other options, is a Good Thing for everyone. (Not that accessibility isn't a Good Thing in and of itself)

[amadi]

I run talk_bingo which is largely modeled after thingswithwings fabulous kink version, and this has given me things to think about as well. My nod to accessibility thus far has been to make it clear that people who can't use .gif bingo cards can have a text only version, but that's just the tip of the iceberg. I'll be working on some further explication of how the challenge can be approached by people (like myself) with limited spoons.

Thank you for a new vista of thought.

[torachan]

I do understand why mods are so tough on drop-outs, because in an exchange, it can be really hard to find pinch hitters (Yuletide seems to have plenty, but most fests have to scramble to find people).

I have noticed that a lot more fests these days seem to be moving away from exchanges, at least during the rest of the year (exchanges still seem to be the way it's done at Christmas), which I like. But sometimes non-exchange fests still have rules about dropping out, which I don't really understand. For example, Kink Bingo is pretty laid back, but they do still have a rule that you must write at least one fic during the month of the fest or the grace period before the next round starts (which gives you a year) or else you can't participate the next year. Sure, in a year most people should be able to write at least one fic. But I don't understand why they need that rule to begin with, since dropping out doesn't cause any trouble for the mods or other participants.

I personally like writing more than receiving fics, so I would be just as happy if all fests did away with the exchange model and moved to something that allowed for more leeway if you had to drop out.

[kaz]

Yeah, I mean, for Yuletide I get it. (And it turns out there *is* something you can do throughout the rest of the year, which I didn't know and which I will definitely check out!)

OTOH, it seems as if there's this general attitude of... if the mods do not want X thing to happen, they make it out to be twice as bad as it is in the rules, expecting that people won't take them entirely seriously and will end up thinking it's about the right degree of bad. I mean, I run into this absolutely everywhere - people saying "this is 100% awful always" and then when I take them aside to ask it turns out that no, it's actually not, they were exaggerating so that people would take them seriously-

But the problem is that my mind doesn't work like that. If someone tells me that something (dropping out) is terrible awful huge problem, I will believe them. In fact, I usually make missing deadlines and the like a *bigger* deal than what people say it is. And I will build up a huge amount of anxiety about the thing in my head. This means that a) if I drop out, I am less likely to tell them, because I'm so racked with guilt about it that my only hope is to avoid thinking about this thing at all costs and b) that I am probably more, not less, likely to drop out, because even before the deadline approaches I can't think about the thing without "I have to complete this if I don't the world will end!!!" So, you know, in some cases being tough on drop-outs can actually be counter-productive, you know?

And I totally agree with you on non-exchange fests having rules about dropping out. I've probably been banned from femgenficathon for not completing my prompt last year, and that wasn't an exchange fest. Although I can see the point in exchanges - e.g. for Yuletide, it's a) structured as a Christmas present and b) specifically designed as a way for people to get fic in rare fandoms that may usually only see a few fics per year. I mean, if I have a hankering for a specific Kirk/Spock scenario in ST XI there are tons of places I can go for that, but if I want to see, say, Randy/Mike in Gordon Korman's I Want To Go Home!, there are probably only three or four active writers in that fandom at all.

I suppose something cool would be to have people who didn't want to request something and only write something "open up" a slot for someone to only request and not write, or write with no obligation of completion, but I have no idea of how realistic that is.

[torachan]

Yeah, I think my reactions are pretty similar to yours. I tend to really stress over things like that.

I got banned from Yuletide a couple years ago for dropping out without telling them ahead of time, but the trouble was, I really thought to the very last minute that I could do it (I was literally writing up until the countdown, in Google Docs with my beta right there doing live beta on the fic). I really didn't want to drop out and make trouble, but I also wasn't having much luck writing. :-/ And I realise that's my fault, but saying "tell us ahead of time if you're going to drop out" doesn't really work when you don't know ahead of time. -_-

[amadi]

I considered having the "write something in order to participate in future rounds" rule for Talk Bingo for this reason only: there is a lot of work put into making those bingo cards. And for KB, there are many many more cards being made and so for the investment in time, getting something back is appreciated. I decided against it, but since I'm doing Talk Bingo twice a year I may go with "one fic during posting or amnesty or you have to take the next round off."

[true_statement]

I don't know how possible it would be for a huge exchange like yuletide, but for smaller challenges I'd like to see an option on the sign-up form like "If your assigned writer/artist drops out, do you need a pinch hitter?" I know some people get upset if they don't receive a gift fic/art, but I'm not one of them; I am in fact upset only by the thought that the need to provide my gift is causing my writer/mod/pinch hitter trouble and stress.

[torachan]

Oh! Yes, this would be so awesome. I'm in fests for the writing, not the receiving, so I would be happy to state I didn't need a pinch hit.

[liviapenn]

Heh, my first reaction to this is "But nooooo! Pinch-hitting!" because (1) I love having the opportunity to do pinch-hits, and I don't find it troublesome or stressful at all-- I think it's incredibly fun and it makes me feel like a superhero! Some people describe it as "all the fun of Yuletide without the weeks of procrastination beforehand," etc. Also, (2) suppose you asked for my favorite fandom and then your writer dropped out, I'd selfishly still want someone to write that story for you, so *I* could read it. *G* But then I tend to think of Yuletide and similar ficathons not really as straight one-on-one exchange mechanisms but a way to communally create a substantial body of work for a certain pairing/fandom/genre.

From the mod's POV, I can definitely see it being useful to have an 'out' where people could say "look, if it's really REALLY tough to find a pinch-hitter for me and you end up just having to absolutely *beg* someone to take the prompt, seriously don't worry about it, I'll be fine" but like Zvi said, a lot of mods are running challenges specifically to create more fic of whatever type they'd like to see more of, and if people are willing to sign up as pinch-hitters, I would rather have mods take advantage of that than not.

[torachan]

Oh, I like pinch hitting, too. But yeah, I'm thinking a situation where if there are people willing to pinch hit, then fine, but if it's a huge stressful scramble for the mods, then no worries.

And I actually share your view about things being more communal than one-to-one exchanges. Which is why I kind of wish more mods would move to pick-a-prompt type fests rather than exchanges. Like, if Yuletide were all Treats, that would be so awesome. Just have the list of requests up and have a free-for-all. (And I know theoretically that's what NYR is, but...no one really pays attention to NYR fics. There's not the same excitement surrounding them and it's easy to write a fic and have it totally slip through the cracks with no one noticing it.)

[kaz]

I have been wondering whether part of the problem is that such communities *exist*, but people haven't heard of them or there's not a lot of excitement around them, and that the ones that are really popular and well-known are the more strict exchange-based ones. I have also been wondering how much of that is due to chance, how much due to exchange-based ones simply being more popular, how much due to some other reason...

Clearly, I need to assemble my disabled minions, invade fandom and raise pick-a-prompt challenges up high!

...you know. If I had disabled minions.

[torachan]

I think one of the biggest non-exchange fests I've participated in was lgbtfest. That did really, really well both years. Stuff like Porn Battle always seems to do well, too.

[kaz]

Come to think of it, kink memes go in this direction, don't they? Although I really like the "we're working on stuff together!" communal attitude of a fest, which the anonymity of a kink meme kind of destroys. (I mean. I love the anonymity of kink memes. But they're not fic fests.)

And this reminds me of how for people with certain mental illnesses (depression, depression, depression) writing fic can be a way to make themselves feel better but having that fic criticised can drag them straight back down again. I have a friend who would only write on kink memes because of their no-crit amnesty; it occurs to me that fests in general are quite suited for that kind of thing.

[torachan]

Oh yeah, I never participate in those kink memes because I just cannot fathom why I would want to write something and not put my name on it. XD But they do seem to be popular.

[kaz]

You can put your name to it if you want in some memes! I was quite glad for the anonymity because it was my first time writing porn and if it sucked utterly I wanted to maintain plausible deniability.

...also, there was the tentacle porn. >>

[kaz]

Also, thanks for the link to lgbtfest! I am perusing with interest, although I'm generally unsure enough of where I stand in the LGBT community that I tend to avoid spaces like that.

eta because I suddenly realise that wow, that sounds pretty awful - I'm aromantic-tending-homoromantic asexual, which is a pretty confusing identity to be, and I'm never sure whether my queer identity will be accepted or not in LGBT spaces. Also, reading and trying to write prompts like that makes me realise just how much I'm *not* part of the larger queer community, which is somewhat painful. [/digression]

[torachan]

Well, the fest isn't limited to people who identify as LGBT, but just meant to focus on stories that are about more than "we're not gay, we just love each other" type of slash, etc.

I'm not involved in "the queer community" offline at all because there are few things less appealing than going to a bar or getting together with a group of strangers.

[were_duck]

Dropping by this thread to plug another interesting new comm, queerlygen, which is for fic that's about queer characters in non-romantic/non-shippy situations. Their profile includes "asexual" explicitly, for what it's worth, and I think the mods and comm members seem to definitely support asexual inclusion. I've been lurking there so far, but I'm definitely developing a couple of ideas with an eye to posting to that comm, because it's pretty great.

[melannen]

Popping in late! Just to say that I've "participated" in lgbtfest both years (and by "participated" I mean "suggested prompts that got written for me and then flaked out on writing any myself without having to feel guilty about it") and felt really safe there.

I did ask the mods specifically if they included asexuality in their definition of lgbt for the fest, and was told not, but it was in a nice enough way (along the lines of "we don't know enough about that to feel like we could mod it well", not "you don't count") that I still felt welcome as a writer and prompter (though their definition of "transgender" is broad enough that I did manage to put in some prompts for neuter characters, though none got written.)

I was tempted to start a similarly-organized fest just for asexual characters, because that is absolutely my favorite fest format (I usually end up with about three or four of my prompts written! Without out any omg-i-have-an-obligation angst!) but my own lack-of-long-term-focus abilities make unlikely I could pull off running one, however much I wish it existed. :D

[daegaer]

Coming in very late to say that springkink on LJ runs the pick-a-prompt format, and it garners a lot of attention and posts. It still has deadlines, though, so may not suit your writing style. (The current round has a long list of prompts for each day in November, people picked what they wanted about a month beforehand, and submit their stories on the day specified).

[liviapenn]

- Allow for people to drop out, even drop out without being able to tell you, and make clear that this is not ZOMG the end of the world in the rules.

I don't think a lot of mods are going to be fans of telling people it's okay to drop out without any indication at *all*, because then as a mod, you don't know you need to find pinch hitters until the deadline has already passed, and you either have to delay the entire ficathon, or go live and tell some people they still have to wait a day or two.

However, in the case of small or medium-sized fandoms, one thing that I've found to be helpful (as a mod) is sending out reminder e-mails, say, a week before the due date, usually with reminders of the deadline/details of how stories are to be posted, and asking people to confirm either that they're dropping out or that they're still planning on posting. Would this feel like it was overly pressuring/pushy to you, or helpful?

I really, really like the idea, btw, of a form letter for people who need to drop out of a challenge. It never would have occurred to me before, but it just seems so obvious that it would be *really* helpful. I think some mods might worry that it would encourage dropping out (sort of the "if we give teenagers condoms it'll encourage them to have sex" argument, I guess *G*) but if I were to run a challenge again, I would definitely do this.

- In addition to the actual challenge, have a group of prompts that people can simply try filling out, or have some prompts you assign to people with no obligation to finish them.

I love this idea too! I know there are definitely people who enjoy ficathons purely for the writing and don't really care about getting stories. Having a pool of no-obligation prompts-- obviously it couldn't possibly hurt, and if it does work out, hey: more stories! Again, totally not something I ever would have thought of, but a really neat idea.

- Don't immediately ban someone who doesn't finish and doesn't tell you beforehand.

I don't really understand why non-exchange-based ficathons do this in the first place, really. :/

[zvi]

If modding involves sending assignments to an individual or tracking them in some way, then every additional participant represents additional work on the part of the mod. Personally, I don't want to expend the energy (and my time/energy participation in fandom is limited, even as a normal person) on people who aren't going to turn up with a story (or whatever the exchange is intended to produce.) This is especially true for challenges where the mod has to generate their own object for participants to work off of (e.g. for picfor1000 or any of the bingo card challenges), or for challenges where there are assigned posting dates so that people watching the challenge are getting a story/icons/meta, etc. every day, because that sort of posting still requires pinch hitters.

I mean, I won't say this is universally true, but the reason for a lot of challenges is so that the mod can have more X exist in the world, and I can do about this much to get that much X, and people who don't turn X in mess with my X production formula, you know? And I, personally, am not running 3_ships because administrating challenges is something I enjoy doing.

[liviapenn]

If modding involves sending assignments to an individual or tracking them in some way, then every additional participant represents additional work on the part of the mod.

Sure, but I think in some cases when you balance that against the hypothetical additional work that it might save you later, it could actually be a net savings on time/energy. I was thinking of Comica Obscura specifically when I mentioned reminder letters, and harriet_spy and I came up with that idea because we knew it would be an incredibly harrying if not nearly impossible to find timely pinch-hitters for super-obscure indie comics characters, etc. And, I don't know whether it was the reminder letters or some other factor, but we always had a very low drop-out rate compared to most ficathons. (IIRC, the second year we ran it, no one dropped out at all.)

On the other hand, if we're just talking about, say, a Rodney/Teyla ficathon or something, where it's not the most obscure pairing in the entire world and pinch-hitters would be relatively easy to find, then maybe sending out letters isn't actually an efficient use of the mod's time. (Although on LJ/DW I can see other ways of doing it besides mass-email-- posting a poll in the comm and having people check in that way, maybe?)

[zvi]

- Don't immediately ban someone who doesn't finish and doesn't tell you beforehand.

I don't really understand why non-exchange-based ficathons do this in the first place, really. :/

That was the portion of your comment, and something similar Travis said above, that I was responding to, actually.

I already do checkin e-mails and posts for 3_ships, and if I had people post to DW or LJ, I'd probably offer the extra prompts, too. Since I post to a website with handcoded HTML (yes, yes, I know, so last century), it's just too much work. When the otwarchive software is ready for installing on my website, I'll probably revisit the issue though.

[kaz]

Just as a quick note - I assume when you say "as a normal person", you mean you're not disabled. I just want to let you know "normal" is rather loaded terminology when it comes to disability - and kind of painful for me to read. "Temporarily able-bodied" (or TAB for short) is the usual terminology, I use "currently abled" or "currently enabled" myself because I feel it's less exclusive of neuroatypical people, "nondisabled" also gets thrown around although it's somewhat problematic due to defining via negative - anyway, any of those is much preferable to "normal" and I'd be really grateful if you used one of them instead.

And I can totally understand that, but there are people who might be able to produce X but who won't be able to under strict challenges. Like, say, if I have a 30% chance of producing fic for a prompt that drops to 10% once you factor in the stress caused by the strict deadline and needing to somehow tell people I might not be able to make it, I definitely won't sign up for that mod's challenge, so they have no chance of getting an X fic from me. However, if they put out a more relaxed challenge, and I join, there is admittedly a 70% chance of me dropping out - but it'll be a lot less stressful for me, and the mod wouldn't have got anything from me anyway if they'd made the challenge stricter - and a 30% chance of getting fic that would not otherwise have been written.

There's of course the question of how much time the mod wants to invest for a 30% chance of fic, and I'm probably outnumbered by the people who work better under pressure... but I mainly want to point out that I and people like me *do exist* and I get the impression a lot of people don't realise that - they think that increasing pressure = increasing productivity for everyone.

Plus, I still think that even a very strict challenge could provide things like a form e-mail or comment if you need to drop out, because it doesn't seem as if it would be that much work to put up and I really cannot describe how much easier that would make things for me.

[zvi]

Sorry for the terminology, will try not to do it again.

My point wasn't that the things you request are uniformly hard (some of them — like silent dropouts — are impossible in an exchange challenge, but OTOH I did a drop out post and amended the rules of 3_ships to include a sample dropout e-mail this afternoon in about fifteen minutes) but that it is not true to assert that, because a dropout costs nothing to the mod in time or effort, there is no rational reason for a non-exchange challenge mod to ban people from their challenge.

[kaz]

I... suddenly realise I haven't answered this and meant to several days ago. Um, sorry. :(

However, in the case of small or medium-sized fandoms, one thing that I've found to be helpful (as a mod) is sending out reminder e-mails, say, a week before the due date, usually with reminders of the deadline/details of how stories are to be posted, and asking people to confirm either that they're dropping out or that they're still planning on posting. Would this feel like it was overly pressuring/pushy to you, or helpful?

Hmm, I think it could go either way. What I think would tip it over into being generally helpful would be a) some reassurance that if you are dropping out it is not the end of the world just please tell us now. I can understand that mods don't want people to think they can just sign up and then drop out and it's not a big issue, but I figure that a week before the deadline it's kind of unlikely many people will go "oh, I would have written the fic but since they say they don't mind drop outs I won't!", whereas someone with social anxiety and other such things will probably find it a lot easier to say "um, sorry, I can't finish" if it's made clear that they are not going to OMG bring down the whole ficathon or something by it. b) something like the form e-mail for drop-outs - saying that if you need to drop out, no explanation is needed and all you have to do is reply to the e-mail saying "Sorry, I need to drop out." Or something like that.

I really, really like the idea, btw, of a form letter for people who need to drop out of a challenge. It never would have occurred to me before, but it just seems so obvious that it would be *really* helpful. I think some mods might worry that it would encourage dropping out (sort of the "if we give teenagers condoms it'll encourage them to have sex" argument, I guess *G*) but if I were to run a challenge again, I would definitely do this.

I love this analogy so much XD and think it is quite accurate, too!

[mhari]

The one time I tried Yuletide, I fell down on it miserably -- exacerbated by family crises, but it didn't help that I too have that kind of dicey temperament -- if I was the kind of person who is good at deadlines I might have made it, but as it was I had to bow out. So I know exactly where you're coming from.

I do like that Yuletide has instituted the "New Year's Resolution" thing, where you can pick up requests that didn't get filled at any time. I haven't actually done one yet, partly because of my residual guilt, but I think it's great to have the opportunity out there.

[torachan]

I think the NYRs have been around since the beginning of Yuletide? Or at least since the second year, because that's when I wrote one. Anyway, it's not something new.

[mhari]

I didn't say it was new, just that it was added in later. Because I would have stuck with that if it had been suggested at the time.

[rodo]

I really like your idea of form mails and comments that you can use to drop out. While it's not so bad for me when it comes to relatively informal mails and comments, I do understand what it feels like. I'm terrified of having conversations via phone, which is a big deal when it comes to accessability. Having an easy step-by-step walkthough on how to do things that is absolutely (or nearly) foolproof really helps with this type of anxiety. Clear and friendly FAQs on this would also be a great help.

This year is probably going to be the first time I do Yuletide (not 100% sure yet), and I'm thankful for everything that makes it easier for me. I'm going to be under a lot of stress, because while I generally can gauge if I'll be able to do something, I really can't say with certainty how I will feel in a week or a month. And while I generally do finish what I start, it would relieve some of the pressure to have a way out should it be necessary. I'm already mentally preparing myself for writing a story in a foreign language (=English) and looking for a beta, which is always a big deal/cause of anxiety for me.

An exchange that worked really well for me was the Christmas fic exchange on ficathon_de last year. You could sign up by writing a comment with max. five prompts, at least one of them had to be for a mainstream fandom/pairing or for a canon that could easily be watched/read. The prompts would be posted anonymously and other people would anonymously reply with comment-sized fic until the deadline. The only rule was that the first prompt you wrote for was by someone who hadn't yet received a gift-fic (or art). In the end, some people wrote multiple fics and others didn't write anything at all. Miraculously, everybody did end up with a fic.

It was very improvised, but I liked how informal it was and that everybody was free to do what they wanted. This was in part due to the fact that the organisers anticipated that the participants would also be busy with Yuletide, Christmas presents and whatnot. With more preparation, it would probably work even better. Pity it probably wouldn't do for many English fandoms because it would be too complicated with 200 participants.

[elspethdixon]

form letters for drop-outs. This is actually the #1 thing I'd like to see, because I honestly have trouble describing just how difficult writing a simple e-mail can be

This. I don't have the problems with emails and letters that I do with phone calls, but form letters or comments that can be copied and pasted are still welcome stress-reducers (phone calls are the devil - I have avery hard time making a phone call to anyone in a non-calling-my-family-or-close-friends context without a written script to look at or at least a written list of the information I might need or a a print invoice or yellow page listing or some form of written material about the person I'm calling so that I can *feel* like I'm looking at a script).

[kaz]

Oh dear god, phone calls. I'm starting to look into the relay service, because it is this huge, massive problem. My credit card has not been working for over a year because I need to call the company to a) change my address and b) tell them to reactivate it, and I start shaking just thinking about it. You essentially take my e-mail issues and some extra social anxiety, add it all being in real-time, toss in me needing more time to figure things out than the average conversation allows, add a generous splash of hearing issues that are exacerbated by recorded speech, season to taste with a speech disorder and sprinkle accidentally saying things without knowing what they are when too stressed on top for decoration. Then let simmer for twenty-odd years. The resulting dish is my issues with telephone conversation.

...which is to say. I sympathise entirely.

[sid]

*waves* Random stranger passing by here. :-)

I have a few comparitively minor phone issues of my own, and frequently had to make phone calls at work on my boss's behest where I had only the vaguest sense of what I was talking about. I've always envied people around me, or on TV, who can just pick up a phone, dial, and start talking. I need to sit and think about it for five minutes!

I don't know if this will help you at all, but it helped me a lot when I finally figured out that the person picking up the phone on the other end of the line was going to be an expert. I might stumble through my rehearsed opening sentence, but they took over the conversation from there. I didn't know the right questions to ask, but they did. It was their job to help me accomplish my business for their company's benefit as well as mine. And the same thing holds true when I deal privately with credit card companies and so forth, although it's never going to be, you know, fun. *makes face*

Side note: I took medication for job stress for a while that incidentally treated my moderate social anxiety, and I learned a lot about how reality and my demons differed. But I still have to fight the demons. Like you said, stuff simmers for decades. All best wishes for you. :-)

[kaz]

I do rely on this fact because I essentially just try to somehow get through the opening sentence and then hope for them to take over. However, my other issues make this difficult; it's often hard for me to understand conversation over the phone (I remember one of the most recent conversations I had, where the person had background noise on their side and I wound up going "okay, they just asked... something. What are the possible questions they could ask in this situation? Which one did this most sound like? Okay, let's just answer that one and hope that's right") And, you know, when I need more time to process-slash-guess the auditory information and decide how to respond I have less time to actually formulate my response without leaving a very noticeable pause in the conversation, so I often wind up essentially tossing the idea of what I want to say at my vocal cords without being able to put it into words beforehand - what then comes out is usually not quite what I actually mean, and I have to correct myself, and if I don't have the time to plan what I want to say it often gets very incoherent because I start adding in irrelevant details and can't get things into a logical order and it is a huge mess of augh.

It does help a bit to remind myself that they get paid to put up with people like me, but the combination of often not knowing what they are saying and often not knowing what *I* am saying still makes it very unpleasant.

[sid]

Argh, and so often if you ask someone to repeat what they said, they're just as incoherent the second time. Or even the third time. Like they don't get that they might need to slow down and speak very clearly.

I do that guessing-what-they-just-said/asked sometimes. I imagine that the person on the other end of the line is sometimes giving the phone the same strange look that I collect in person from friends and family, lol.

[sidewinder.livejournal.com]

I run a small holiday-themed challenge, so thanks for the idea about the form-letter for drop-outs. I will definitely create one for this year once assignments have gone out so that hopefully it makes it less stressful for people who do need to drop out to do so. Because, really, I'd much rather hear from someone to just say "I can't make the deadline" (and hear it early enough to easily find a substitute writer) than not hear anything at all or only at the very last minute.

Because it is, strictly, a gift-based exchange based around the winter holiday season, it's not an exchange I can open up to remove deadlines completely. I've tried in the past to encourage people to submit "unfulfilled request" stories throughout the year after the official challenge is over, a la yuletide, but so far that's never happened :-/ Needless to say, I'll try it again this time around so that if folks would like to try to write a story to a request/challenge/prompt, they can do so all year without deadline stress.

[redsnake05]

Over on lj, I'm co-modding a fest that we have deliberately tried to make accessible to people who wouldn't ordinarily participate. This post helped us firm up a couple of things in our processes. It never occured to us that we needed to clarify the dropping out process to minimise stress, for example. Thanks for posting this, it was thought-provoking, and that's always awesome.

[portraitofagirl]

Thank you.

For the first time I'm getting involved in helping to run something similar this time and despite my own problems and my history with having to drop out of an exchange due to health issues I still hadn't really considered how to make things more accessible. I'll definitely be sending the other mod over here to read and hopefully we can at least implement some of the things you suggest and maybe build on others to make them work for us :)

[jaaaarne]

It has been already pointed out that the conditions you proposed would be quite impossible in an exchange ficathon, but I immensely liked your idea of no-obligations prompts where people could just try their hand at doing something without actually signing up for the challenge.

I keep thinking back to a Christmas challenge I participated in a couple of years ago. There was a master post from the mods, and people signed up there by leaving a comment regarding what they can do and what they wish to get in return. Now I'm thinking that since all these prompts had been public, it would've been quite possible to allow people choose one themselves without signing up and being assigned something. In such case, people could participate without taking obligations. Sure, they wouldn't be receiving anything back, either, but it would be fair, I think.

The more I think about it, the more I like this idea. :) If I ran a ficathon, I would definitely try something like that.

[kaz]

To be honest, in my sad sad sadness about Yuletide I have been thinking of searching out someone's Yuletide letter, trying to write for it and (if successful) dropping it on their LJ as a kind of Suprise Secret Santa. >> If the prompts are public or can be made public with no problems, why shouldn't people be able to sign up with no guarantee of writing?

Or, you know, divide the exchange into flakes and non-flakes, with the first part being between people who go "er, I'd like to write something but I can't guarantee I'll finish" and people who go "here, have a prompt, but I don't mind if it's not completed". It's... there *are* things you can do to make even exchange-based ficathons more open to people who can't guarantee a contribution, you just have to get away from mapping prompts-that-must-be-completed to writers bijectively one-to-one. And I will stop at this point because I want to talk about the mapping being non-injective/non-surjective which is getting way too mathematical for this audience. Oops.

[cesy]

I like the maths part :)

I think for Yuletide, the NYR challenge is kind of useful, though it's not ideal. I wish it was possible to do treats for it as well as full fics, though - I struggle to hit the 1k words limit.

[kaz]

I should probably have qualified that bit, yes. *g* see if the mapping is non-surjective then there are people who do not have an assigned prompt and can attempt any of the others, non-injective means assigning several prompts to the same person - not ideal. OTOH, looking at the map - now no longer an inverse - going the other way, non-injective means assigning several people to the same prompt, whereas non-surjective means some prompts do not have any people assigned - bad! Of course, since our sets are not infinite the First Isomorphism Theorem shows that if we want the first map to be injective and the second map to be surjective both of these imply |{P : P is a prompt that must be completed}| < |{W : W a writer}|, so by the Pigeonhole Principle not every writer can generate a prompt. :)?

One of the very good things that has come out of this post on my part is learning about the NYR challenge! A bit unfortunate now, but definitely something I will be looking at after New Year's!

[blktauna]

You can do treats. Near the end there's the stocking stuffers. They can be of any length but need to be done on a schedule so that might not work for you either.

[highlyeccentric]

Just so you know (someone else may have notified you already) - Yuletide Madness, in which all prompts are loaded up for anyone to write quick-fire bonus stories and upload them to the archive - is now open to anyone with an AO3 account, not just Yuletide registered participants.

This is not QUITE ideal since the AO3 is still in beta and you need an invitation - but if you think you might have spoons to spare on writing fic on Christmas eve, you can head over to the AO3 now and I believe they have a form for requesting an invite.

[midnitemarauder]

I mod hp_springsmut, which is a rare pare exchange, and I also co-modded bigbangblackout and snarry_games.

Snarry Games is not an exchange, and for bigbangblackout - which was a Sirius Black themed Big Bang, if you didn't submit a complete draft by the first deadline, you wouldn't get an artist to draw art for your fic, but if you finished by the final deadline, we would have posted it in the archive. But those aren't exchanges. We did have 2 artists drop for BBB, but we were able to get pinch hitters.

But for a fest that is an exchange fest, where you sign up, agreeing to write or draw for the person you get assigned to, your request:

Allow for people to drop out, even drop out without being able to tell you, and make clear that this is not ZOMG the end of the world in the rules.

is simply not feasible. The whole point of an exchange is that you write/draw for someone, and someone writes/draws for you. When you sign up, this is the "contract" you're agreeing to. If you drop out, not only do we not have a fic/art for the person you were assigned to, but now we have a fic/art that someone else created for you, and no recipient to give it to, which is not fair to the person who worked hard on their contribution for 'you'. And particularly in a fest like Springsmut, which is a rare pairs fest, and includes slash and het, it's not easy to find pinch hitters because some of the requested pairings are pretty obscure.

Things happen, and there are always dropouts. From my own experience, there tends to be a 10% dropout rate on average in most fests, and we do a separate post after assignments go out asking for PHs and what they're willing to write/draw. As far as dropouts go, we don't ban someone who drops out and notifies us in a timely manner. When we do ban someone, it's because they lied to us, dropped out after the deadline passed and we had to spend significant time trying to contact them, they dropped at the last minute after being granted extensions, or if they disappear and don't respond to mod attempts to get in touch with them. And we HAVE to know if someone can't complete their assignment, because we can't just randomly assign the fic/art written for your request to someone else. Only very rarely does it match with your intended recipient's request.

You seem to have this impression that mods are these huge, intimidating figures. We're really not. In fact some of us have had to drop out of other fests for varying reasons. We're fellow fans like yourself, and we also write and participate in other fests.

For me personally, if people need to drop or require an extension, I don't want a list of reasons why, and certainly not anything exotic. It's rather astounding how many computer crashes happen around fic fest deadlines. Now, some people really DO have crashes. But some think we need a better excuse than, "I need more time to finish, can I get a few days please?" I don't want or need excuses - I much prefer when people are straightforward about it.

If you were in my fest and emailed me and said, "I tried, but I just couldn't/I'm not going to be able to complete my assignment. I ran out of spoons." I would never hold that against you, and I really don't know many fest mods who would. Part of our job as mod is to help our participants whenever possible. And we want to help and encourage them. But if I emailed you saying, "Hey, the deadline was yesterday, are you going to be able to complete your assignment or do you need an extension?" and you ignore my email, I'm not going to think very highly of you because to me, it's a matter of courtesy and respect.

Yes, it's "just" fandom, but as mod, I'm in a position of responsibility for the fest I'm running, and I'm responsible for making sure all the participants get something in return. I don't have time to chase people for weeks on end and hope I'll get a contribution from them. I just can't. It's not personal, it's that my first responsibility as a mod is to the fest itself.

So if you really can't commit to the exchange format - and it's perfectly okay if you can't; exchanges just aren't for everyone, and there's nothing wrong with that - then both you and the mods would be better off if you looked for a non-exchange, prompt-based fest. Less pressure for you to 'perform' under conditions that make you uncomfortable, and less pressure for the mods to have to find a pinch hitter.

And don't be afraid of mods. We don't bite. Honest! And when we're strict, it's because, as I said, our first responsibility is to the fest itself, and modding is a lot more work (and takes up a lot more time) than it sometimes appears from the outside. As a participant, you have one person - the person you're writing/drawing for - to focus on. Mods have to worry about everyone, including readers, and in some fests, that's a lot of people. :)

[kaz]

Just to clarify, I'm aware that "allow for people to drop out without telling you" isn't really feasible for exchange-based fics for precisely the reason you mention. That point is more related to *non*-exchange based ficathon, and some of the others are suggestions for exchange-based ficathons. For example, some people on this post have mentioned that because for them the main thing is writing they don't really mind if their prompt is fulfilled or not, and for me as well - sure, it'd be cool if I could request a fic, but the main thing I want to do is give answering a prompt a go, you know? So it doesn't *have* to be "X person must write fic, request a prompt and have that request fulfilled". Again, I've never modded one of these things so I don't know whether it would be possible/how much extra work it would be to, say, have an extra post with the various prompts so that people who haven't signed up can give it a shot anyway or match up people who say "I can't guarantee I'll be able to write fic" with people who say "I don't mind if my prompt isn't fulfilled" although I and some others are having Thinky Thoughts about a disability-themed ficathon that tries to be as accessible as possible, so we can test how this all works out in practice. None of these are ZOMG YOU MUST DO THIS IF YOU DON'T YOU SUCK FOREVER things, they are really just suggestions, but I did want to frame the discussion in such a way that people realise these are actually accessibility issues for various PWD; I can trace pretty much all of the issues I have with ficathons back to either autistic issues or depression.

And re: e-mail - the thing is that this really isn't something specific to e-mailing zomg mods zomg!! (although I admit that can be a bit intimidating in and of itself. >>) I have this issue wrt pretty much any form of e-mail beyond very informal with people I know. I really appreciate the thought, and it does really help to know that you are not going to kill me and eat me for dropping out, but it's not going to solve the issue for me. Chances are nothing will (because a lot of my social anxiety is disproportionate but is still grounded in reality - "what if I mess up some social norm that is obscure to me but where violating it will make the other person think I am deliberately incredibly rude?!" is something that has a reasonable chance of actually happening if I'm not very very careful due to autism-related issues), so I have to find ways to work around it. Hence I suggested form e-mails in the post, because really, for something like dropping out - especially if you don't want reasons - there's no *need* for the person to formulate the e-mail all on their own.

Speaking about reasons - it is awesome that you don't need any for dropping out! Do people know that beforehand? I'm asking because all of my e-mail issues will grow even worse if I'm worried about needing to explain why I'm dropping out, and if there's nothing like "we don't need to know why, we just need to know that you won't be completing this" in the rules I'll probably assume worst case scenario. :(

[kaz]

Also, wrt the reasons for dropping out - I do want to point out here that that is actually a serious consideration for me. Because if people want to know why, and the issue is something related to autism... this is more related to another post I'm thinking of writing, but have you ever looked at the way people talk about Asperger's in fandom? It. Is. Awful. (It is so awful that I have been careful to only say "autism" instead of "AS" up until this point in time, because although AS is a variety of autism and it is therefore completely accurate, autism is not quite as red-flag-worthy as AS to various people online and I have to protect myself somehow.) If I need to say "hai I can't complete this challenge because of X AS issues" there is the very real possibility that I will be mocked and attacked and people will tell me I am just using it as an excuse.

[midnitemarauder]

No, I can't say that I do know, or at least they haven't said anything where I've seen it personally. One of my best friends has an autistic son, I have an autistic cousin, and my 8 1/2 year old niece has mild Aspergers, so I do understand to a point. Not suffering from it myself, of course I will never understand what it feels like or how it affects you personally. However, those people who mock (or would mock) are ignorant and asinine. Not that that helps, but it's still true.

It puts me in mind of the recent "trigger" discussion - not that it's the same thing, but rather that they're similar in aspect. People with triggers were explaining why certain fic warnings were necessary for them, and why a lack of them was a problem. Some people mocked and felt...I don't know - as if adding warnings to their fic and art oppressed them or whatnot. I'm not going to speak for them. But the large majority of people were sympathetic and many never realized the extent of the problem. (I've always warned for things in my own fics, and required warnings on all fic and art in the fests I ran anyway.)

But where that related to you - I think your post was very enlightening and I'm glad you made it.

No, as someone pointed out in reply to my comment - I certainly can't speak for ALL mods, but like with anything else, if someone is rude or unaccommodating, you try to limit your involvement with them.

I don't need excuses/reasons because I don't feel that my status as mod requires anyone to tell me anything personal, especially if that might make them uncomfortable. It's not that I don't care if they're having a problem - I do. And if people want to explain, that's fine, too. But I don't need them to tell me anything other than, "Sorry, I'm not going to be able to complete my assignment." Being a mod doesn't entitle me to more than that, period.

If someone needs an extension, I'm more than happy to give them as much time as I feasibly can - like I said, I'm always happy to work with participants and help them in any way I possibly can. I've had people email that they couldn't come up with an idea for a story to match their assignment, and I've helped them brainstorm, in some cases we found another participant to switch assignments, and in others I've found someone else (a PH) to write the assignment, and then the original person wrote a new story for the PH instead. I want people to be happy with their assignments and want them to want to write it, you know? That's rather the whole point.

You explained that you have trouble emailing in general because of the anxieties you experience. Other than a form letter, do you have a friend you would feel comfortable asking to email a mod for you? Because that might be another solution for you and others in your position. Would having a friend to act as contact person/go-between help?

My point there is that I don't (and I think most mods wouldn't) care who was doing the corresponding. What's most important from my perspective is knowing whether I'm going to receive the assignment on time, or if an extension is required - just knowing the state of things in general. I always want to give the participant the benefit of the doubt, but if I need a pinch hitter, then I want to give the PH as much time to write/draw as possible as well. As you get closer to the first posting date/the scheduled end of the fest, time is important to me in my position. I don't care who tells me or how - it's the information itself that matters.

Everybody writes differently. Some people like or even need the pressure of a deadline to complete something. Some people prefer specific prompts, and others don't want more than a list of preferred pairings, kinks (likes) and squicks (dislikes), and prefer to come up with an idea of their own. For me, a no-pressure fest isn't good for me because without that deadline, I have less incentive to write. For you, that looming deadline can trigger your anxiety.

From my perspective, I don't mod for any kind of self-glory or the like; I want the fest to be a good experience and fun for the participants and the readers/watchers, and I personally want to help contribute more fic and art of the type produced by the fest to fandom. That's why I mod, and why I participate in other fests. Some fests, like Yuletide or RemixRedux have more risks involved, but participants are aware of that from the outset - in particular with Remix, the mod emphasizes that participants are matched on fandom, not pairings or characters, so there is a very real chance you might get assigned to someone whose character and pairing preferences within that fandom don't match, and that's something we, as participants, have to consider before we commit to sign up. I know a number of people who don't participate in Remix for that reason alone, and there's nothing wrong with that. Not every fest suits everyone.

Recently, a friend ran a fest in HP called ownficfest where people submitted prompts for fics they'd been working on, or always planned to write but never did, and someone chose from that list which fic they'd like to see completed. Some people did drop, but it was a fest designed for the writers to "finally finish a story that had been languishing in obscurity" more than for someone to receive something. And for those whose "gifters" dropped out, the mod posted a list of pairings and prompts submitted by them for anyone to pic up and write something (drabbles, ficlets, fics, etc.) afterward. There was no penalty for dropping out. I thought it was a brilliant idea, and maybe people in other fandoms will pick up and run with it. This also seems like a type of low-pressure exchange-type fest that would suit you and your needs as well.

But generally, like I said above, as a mod, I'm not entitled to explanations/reasons/excuses. I'm really not. And you should never feel obligated to explain if you don't want to. It's none of our business. Mods aren't judges or arbiters or any of that nonsense, even if they think they are. What is our business is knowing yes or no with regard to a participant being able to complete an assignment in the time allotted. A qualifier like "I'm sorry, but..." does go a long way in terms of courtesy and politeness, but anyone who demands a reason or excuse or other personal information, in my opinion and experience, is overstepping. It's none of our business unless you voluntarily choose to explain.

[midnitemarauder]

Also, as to your question about whether people knew beforehand about my "no explanation necessary" policy, when I send out emails to participants, I do state that, but no, it wasn't stated outright in the rules itself. So I went and added this to our fest rules to (hopefully) make this more clear for people in the future, so thank you for pointing that out. :)

[sqbr]

although I and some others are having Thinky Thoughts about a disability-themed ficathon that tries to be as accessible as possible, so we can test how this all works out in practice.

OOOooooh. I might actually do that! With actual fic! (Though it would be awesome if art could be included too. But I realise that might be too much hassle)

Also I can't speak for anyone else but I for one appreciated the maths :)

[sasha_feather]

You seem to have this impression that mods are these huge, intimidating figures.

kaz said no such thing; she simply pointed out ways that challenge fests are difficult for her, and suggested clear-cut, simple ways they could be more accessible.

And don't be afraid of mods. We don't bite. Honest!

You may be able to speak for yourself, but you have no authority to speak for the mods of all the challenges across the wide landscape of the internet.

If this topic makes you uncomfortable, I suggest you sit with that discomfort a while, and consider why you feel that way. Perhaps you could think about what it feels like to feel excluded from challenges.

(frozen) (no subject)

[midnitemarauder]

I never said she "said" it, I merely said she seemed to have an impression. And in fact she voiced concern that mods would be upset with her if she tried to explain she had a disability. Many people do, by the way - find mods intimidating, whether they suffer from a disability of some kind or not. They get nervous about contacting us with bad news, afraid we'll yell at them or curse them out for some reason.

My point was that mods are generally much more understanding than you (general you) might think.

No, I certainly can't speak for all mods. But if people have a bad experience with a particular mod, then I would suggest that they don't participate in future fests that mod runs. From my own experiences, the mods I know and have worked with would not yell or bitch or ever hold her disability against her.

The topic doesn't make me uncomfortable. I was explaining why her request wouldn't be feasible for an exchange based fest from an exchange mod's perspective - i.e. mine. There are plenty of other types of fests, and I felt, after reading her post and her explanations of her condition, that those of a non-exchange format would be more comfortable for her and would be less likely to trigger her anxiety.

(frozen) (no subject)

[sasha_feather]

You've had your say, and I thank you for your thoughts. I'm freezing this thread.

[shopfront]

Thank you for making this post, it's really interesting and helpful to read about accessibility problems from a POV that's both similar and different. I have bipolar, and while it hasn't stopped me from participating in many of the challenges/fests/exchanges that I'd love to do, it does stop me from doing all of the ones I'd like. I'm lucky and still manage to complete quite a few though and I have a pretty low drop out rate, so I've learnt the best way to manage my spoons, but I understand your frustration at having to consider whether I'm capable of doing something I'm really excited about, when sometimes small tweaks would make it considerably easier for me. I sometimes function best of very short deadlines, and sometimes even the more generous writing deadlines aren't enough. I think your point about email stress is also a really good one. I usually get there in the end, but any sort of communication along those lines whether on or offline tends to take me a long while to get around to because first I have to struggle to push down the feeling of being shamed by my inability to keep up with my more able peers.

I think it's hard to accommodate some of these issues within the currently popular challenge/exchange format though. There are lots of smaller tweaks that can be used, like your suggestion about clearer drop out policies and email forms, to ease problems, but I think assigned exchanges in particular are very difficult to make any large changes to, given the requirements of getting everyone a gift. Maybe the answer is really less about changing aspects to the current format(s) - well aside from increasing awareness among mods about accessibility for the less abled so that the smaller changes are made more regularly - and more about a need for people to be more creative with these sorts of projects. Maybe less able people finding it difficult to participate somewhere despite the large range of fandom events that happen each year should tell us there's a bit of a rut going on here, and challenge us to diversify the way we run things.

And I must say, I went away and pondered the issue for a while before coming back to comment, and I've had just as much fun brainstorming ways to keep the elements I love most about the current general template used, while leaving behind some of the biggest obstacles to participating, as I do brainstorming for a new fic assignment.

[kaz]

Thanks! :) I'm glad this post is speaking to people not, uh, me. I also actually agree on short deadlines - I think longer deadlines gives me more time to build up panic, which means that by the time the deadline actually rolls by the issue has turned into one of those things I store at the back of my mind labelled "do not touch on danger of pain". But that's not something everyone deals with, and someone with more classical spoon problems - who might only be able to write rarely or a little and therefore need more time to complete something - will probably like long deadlines and flexible deadlines.

I agree with you that it's tough to accommodate this stuff in strict exchange-based formats, but I think it should still be possible to have a ficathon with an exchange-based element to it that has some more flexibility in it - for instance, some people might be willing to sign up (under the usual restrictions) without asking for a prompt in exchange, in which case you could have multiple writers on one prompt (in particular, a person with drop-out-amnesty and a person doing it the usual way), or people who sign up under amnesty conditions might not be able to request prompts/be able to request but only if they don't mind if their prompt isn't filled (in which case you'd have a pool of the usual challenge and a separate pool of no-guaranteed-fic). This would all be more work for the mods so I understand people sticking to the strictly "X writes a fic for Y's prompt", but I don't want to go so far as to say that any type of exchange-based ficathon can't be made more accessible for people like me apart from relatively minor tweaks, you know?

Brainstorming this is quite fun! I tend to frame these issues as "me sucking and therefore it being my own fault I can't participate" >>, but looking at them from an access point of view is very refreshing and interesting.

[dirty_diana]

This is kind of interesting, because I both run a yearly exchange challenge and have spoon issues (I don't have social anxiety, so stuff to think about there.) FWIW, when I've needed to drop out I just say "i have an illness that's bothering me right now", and no one has ever asked me to provide details or produce a doctor's note. Really they just need to know whether or not to expect a story so they know what to do next. That's the only thing truly important to them.

And IMO the wording of the rules is more for the people who...forget they signed up, or lose interest in the whole concept. Not to terrify people making an honest effort.

On the flip side, I do find there are a couple things I can do to make the odds of my finishing better.

1) Be realistic about how many challenges I can take on. If any. In other words, count my spoons. It *is* hard to resist when your whole reading list is squeeing happily, but I just try to remind myself how much worse it will feel the week before the deadline when my chronic everything is kicking in and I have this unwritten story hanging over my head. Also that whether I participate or not, other people will request things I want to read. And I can read them, stress-free.

And as you point out, if you need those spoons for work or school or making dinner then that's more important.

(A side note to this is, I try be realistic about whether I'm really going to finish. I've experienced, from both sides of the fence, the steady stream of emails going, "I'm almost done, really!" before both mod and author realise it's not true. I know that permanent optimism of really *believing* you'll feel better tomorrow, but some challenges do have a "no penalty if you drop out before" date. Yuletide definitely does.)

2) Sign up for fandoms or pairings that require less spoons for me to write, in the first place. People tend to look at the Yuletide form and want to be helpful and generous, but those fandoms I've never written in before, or recently, are almost always more work.

3) Pace myself. I can't leave the story till the last week. It's tough for me personally because I *used* to be able to write a story in a week. But I now have to grab those moments I feel well enough to work on it from the moment the assignment arrives in my inbox.

(And this sort of returns us to the spoon-counting thing. I better be sure that this challenge is *worth* all my spare spoons, because I'll be using them.)

4) Is there anything you can do to make the *act* of writing require less spoons? I have friends who have offered to type from my written pages for me because that's what gives me the most trouble. (Sitting at a computer makes me dizzy and then pretty soon it's lights out.) So that helps me, but obviously that's going to vary for everyone.

Unfortunately this is going to mean worrying about it, some. I can't think of a way around that in an exchange situation.

Sorry this is so long! But it actually took me a lot of trial and error to figure this stuff out. Still working on mastering #1. :)

[ranalore]

This is really some food for thought. I run an exchange-based challenge (alone), so on the one hand I come at this from the modly angle. On the other hand, I have a cluster disorder that includes migraine headaches, Fibro, Celiac, endometriosis, IBS, and social anxiety, and that definitely affects my participation in fandom. I have managed to harness it for Yuletide the past several years, since I have trained myself to trigger a productive panic cycle upon receiving my assignment, and tend to finish my first draft within the first three days of getting the assignment (this almost backfired last year, when the Yuletide system mismatched some people and assignments had to be redone). However, one reason I learned that harness is because there was a year I took on several challenges and then crashed really, really badly, dropping out of nearly all of them. And while I have found a system that works for me for Yuletide, Remix, and my own exchange, I have resigned myself to really not being able to officially participate in any other fannish challenge, which was a hard transition to make.

At any rate, I say all of that to say that a diversity of challenge formats is a very good idea for allowing more people to play, although I have tried running low-impact, non-exchange, soft-deadline challenges before with little success. It sounds like the concept is coming more into fashion, though. I hope so. Also, I really like the idea of a c&p form if a dropout is necessary. Despite my own social anxiety, I never would have thought of that, and it's such a simple thing.

Thanks for using the spoons to lay out that and other suggestions! I realize they're not all feasible for all challenges, but the ability to incorporate even just one of them would make a lot of challenges a lot more accessible, I think.

[rian_aphasia]

I like the idea of making it clear in the rules or intro post or whatever that dropping out is okay, because for some of us being given that permission helps us deal with stress levels a lot. Also the form letter thing; I have a pretty firm belief that if you are at all in a space where you are able to let people know you can't do something you said you would/wanted to, you should try to let someone know you can't. But I realize that, for many of us, actually putting the words down, or having to deal with any possible confrontation, or dealing with the idea of "letting people down" is really fucking difficult at the best of times. For me at least, it'd be really helpful if the people running something challenges and stuff thought to put down little form letters we can copy-paste, like "I'm having a flare-up of something and I can't finish my piece" or "I'm having a disability-related issue that's screwing with my ability to put the words in my head down on a page or word document and might need to drop out" or something like that.

[originalpuck]

I just saw this over at metafandom, so I know I'm running a bit late, but I'm so very glad you made this post. I can't even explain, really, other than that it brings tears to my eyes with how dead-on it is. I have social anxiety, depression, congestive heart failure, and generalized anxiety disorder.

I can't always anticipate when those things will act up, but when they do, they make participating in challenges of the format you mentioned nearly impossible. And the part about the 'just' e-mailing is so true, too.

I remember having to bail on a Harry Potter ficathon a few years ago, due to anxiety and depression-related issues, and was so stressed out, ashamed, and afraid of being banned from any other groups (or looked at askance) that I left the fandom for a year.

It's still what prevents me from participating in many of these things, and what makes me want to curl-up and cry because so many of my other fandom friends are chatting about how great these things are, how they're one of the few ways to get your fic noticed in big fandoms, and yet they're simply not something I can really do, no matter how hard I try.

And I do try. I had this problem just recently, in fact, with having to whittle down my challenges because of disability reasons (and spoons, oh the spoons). I ended up lying to some people about the problem, because I was too nervous that they would be unsympathetic towards my disabilities.

I - just -- yes. Again, thank you so much for this.

[karayan]

I see a lot of myself in this post, being someone with generalized anxiety and similar interest patterns. So, basically, thanks for posting this. ♥